C'mon, supporters of liberal tazer use.

Sorry about that all. I was still typing and the enter posted it before I was finished.

Ben Grimm wrote: [/quote]

Jeez I can't get of the ignorance and pettyness of your post. Seriously. Did you read it before you hit "send"?

Look at what you are saying quick.

Police officers are generally not supposed to go around inflicting massive pain (however convenient it might be) upon random people, children or adults.

How was someone who was being violent and had already assaulted him "random people" ?

And "safest?" How do you figure? ... there are still deaths every year from tasers. ... she might get some bruises being restrained, and theoretically even a broken arm, but I am pretty sure she wasn't going to die from it.

Sweet Jesus on the Cross. Bruises and broken arms are ok with you, but you aren't allowed to inflict temporary pain on random people. Argue with yourself much?

Bruises and broken arms are way more serious damage than a Tazer would be, and also be way more psychologically damaging. Add to that if you want to, people also die from broken bones. It is infrequent, but it happens. What if it isn't an arm that gets broken? What if it is her ribs, and they puncture a lung? What if is her neck and she's paralysed? What if is her neck and she dies? No no, those will be fine, because they are only "theoretically" going to be broken.

"Quickest" in and of itself is not particularly relevant. The quickest way to end a hostage situation is to send in the SWAT team, but we usually spend a few hours negotiating anyway.

So you admit that my adding quick and safe is pertenent, yet you pick appart quick, happily discarding safe?

One reason SWAT don't settle every hostage situation as they arrive is because it ISN'T SAFE. Gee, lookit that. I wonder why I added quick AND safe? SWAT is a life saving organization. They are meant to protect the lives of hostages AND suspects. They have to take the suspects safety into consideration as well. To be quick and safe you do negotiations. Once they fail, there is a sliding scale of acceptability in the trade off between "safe" and "quick".

But this wasn't a hostage situation, and he wasn't SWAT.

The kid was being violent. You need to stop that, suprisingly, quickly and safely. Given the remote possibiliy of death from the Tazer, and the speed at which they work, the best tool he had for safe, and quick, restraint was the Tazser.

So he used it.

When 5 extra minutes involves people kicking you in the balls, it can be that much too long.

And you DO seem to be missing the most important point of this entire topic. In fact of Tazer use in general.

where a cop thinks it is ok to taser a child, just to avoid restraining her physically

THIS IS THE WHOLE CONCEPT BEHIND TAZERS

They are MEANT to be used instead of using your hands or batton. Both of those are barbaric and degrading to the cop and to the person being restraind. They are also more dangerous for both parties concerned.

This has been my point all along. You are ignorant of the propper use of a Tazer. If you want to contribute properly, get informed. If you don't like the policy that governs their use, CHANGE THE POLICY. Don't crucify some cop because he didn't do whatever it is you think he should have done. He doesn't live in your utopia. He lives in the real world. Get out of cyperspace, start campaigning. Policy isn't going to change because you shout about it on the internet.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 25 November 2009 at 6:33pm

Ben Grimm wrote: [ And "safest?"  How do you figure?  Granted that a taser isn't a firearm, but there are still deaths every year from tasers.

There are more deaths every year from broken bones than from tasers.

jmac3 wrote: Linus wrote: Ben Grimm wrote: [ And "safest?"  How do you figure?  Granted that a taser isn't a firearm, but there are still deaths every year from tasers. There are more deaths every year from broken bones than from tasers. I am sure that number includes all broken bones. Not ones broken by police officers.

And you think police are the only ones using Tasers?

Linus wrote: jmac3 wrote: Linus wrote: Ben Grimm wrote: [ And "safest?"  How do you figure?  Granted that a taser isn't a firearm, but there are still deaths every year from tasers. There are more deaths every year from broken bones than from tasers. I am sure that number includes all broken bones. Not ones broken by police officers. And you think police are the only ones using Tasers?

brihard wrote: Linus wrote: jmac3 wrote: Linus wrote: Ben Grimm wrote: [ And "safest?"  How do you figure?  Granted that a taser isn't a firearm, but there are still deaths every year from tasers. There are more deaths every year from broken bones than from tasers. I am sure that number includes all broken bones. Not ones broken by police officers. And you think police are the only ones using Tasers? Please, find and provide support for ANY other non-law-enforcement agency that uses Tasers regularly enough to be of any statistical relevance or significance.

This. Dig your hole Linus.

Where is the fun in agreeing?

Mack wrote: Linus isn't digging a hole, he is simply stating that he feels it is premature to rush to judgment without all the facts.  A position most of the other forumers on here would appreciate if it was anyone else.

I mean that he's trying to say that the numbers from taser deaths/ injuries will be as tainted by civilian use as broken bones would be.

There are far more people breaking their own bones than there are shocking each other with tasers. I was agreeing with Brihards question.

No. The argument against taser use is it is cruel to use on a 10 year old throwing a fit.

Yes a bone may be broken, and yes people die from broken bones(lol lol), but it still makes much more sense to just restrain a child without using a taser shock.

According to this source, 300 people have been killed by police taser use in the USA and Canada, as of 2007.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5632116,00.html

This source shows 367 deaths as of 2008.

http://judycarlin.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/grim-statistics-taser-death-toll/

choopie911 wrote: There are far more people breaking their own bones than there are shocking each other with tasers. I was agreeing with Brihards question.

This put me in mind of an incident from early in my career.  I won't go into details other than it involved a taser*, alcohol and bored AF security personnel.

*Available because of training that was conducted earlier in the day.


Edited by Mack - 26 November 2009 at 9:35pm