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Tippmann scapegoats

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Yomillio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yomillio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2010 at 6:16am
Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:

Originally posted by The Guy The Guy wrote:

A guns operating pressure has absolutly nothing to do with its efficiency. Its a balance of operating pressure, and the amount of time the valve is held open.

I can run my Tribal down to 150 psi, better than any other gun from the late 90's, but I have to put a 40ms dwell on it.

You are aware that Dwell has to do with battery life, not air consumption right? Dwell is the amount of time your solenoid is powered after you shoot.



...And you do realize that dwell has to do with how long the valve stays open?  The longer the 'noid is powered, the longer the valve is open - that means it has to do with air consumption.  150 psi running through a valve open for 14 ms will be different than 150 psi running through a valve open for 25 ms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2010 at 4:45am
Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:

I figured my post would liven up this thread. I'm proud of myself.Big smile
So, what you are saying is that you're an 'attention-whore'.


Edited by StormyKnight - 06 January 2010 at 8:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2010 at 1:37pm
and proud!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2010 at 4:04am
Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:

and proud!


I shake my head at many of your posts. Haha

If I wasn't on my iPod, i'd go through your post like someone else did.

hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2010 at 8:44pm
The difference between me and everyone else here is that i'm only here for conversation and argument. I'll be perfectly honest. I hate Tippmanns. I think they are heavy, slow, gas hogs, and hard on paint. This is all in relation to guns in their price range. 
98---Vibe
A5---Blitz, SLG
X7----SLG UL, Mini, G3, PMR Basic
Phenom----Etek, PMR UL, G3 SE

I realize Tippmanns are extremely durable but so are every other type of poppet. If you take care of your guns, durability isn't a concern. Even in the rain, mud, sand, etc.

I have yet to find even one thing that makes buying a Tippmann a good choice. I challenge anyone here to give me one reason to buy a Tippmann over any other type of marker.
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MeanMan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2010 at 11:47pm
They are a scenario type of gun. They do their job perfectly for the needs that are put out there. Honestly, I wasn't extremely impressed with my A5. To me, it was another gun. BUT, some of my friends LOVED it. They're into those type of guns.

Yes, I know, speedball guns are excellent for the woods, they are lighter(more compact) and faster, but look at those guns you mentioned. Vibe? I'd avoid it. Smart Parts is hated by all, for good reasons. I loved my original Impulse, but these days, meh. Disliked the Nerve, NXT, SFT and the Ion I shot wasn't half bad, but it had quite a few upgrades. SP is actually closing for January to restructure itself, it's not doing too well.

Then the SLG. Never shot one, but why would I? I've never really seen anyone online that liked theirs. I get tons if the them offered on PbN with other stuff for my F8.

Then your other guns are useless to mention against the X7 and Phenom. Honestly, you are TRYING to put an Etek against a TRUE milsim gun. This is a niche market. You buy thr X7/Phenom for looks, not performance. Good luck getting an ego to look like a real gun for the price of a Tippmann.

Paintball is a niche market. Tippmann sells to woodsballers and scenario players, and also newcomers.

hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2010 at 1:34am
Originally posted by MeanMan MeanMan wrote:

They are a scenario type of gun. They do their job perfectly for the needs that are put out there. Honestly, I wasn't extremely impressed with my A5. To me, it was another gun. BUT, some of my friends LOVED it. They're into those type of guns.

Yes, I know, speedball guns are excellent for the woods, they are lighter(more compact) and faster, but look at those guns you mentioned. Vibe? I'd avoid it. Smart Parts is hated by all, for good reasons. I loved my original Impulse, but these days, meh. Disliked the Nerve, NXT, SFT and the Ion I shot wasn't half bad, but it had quite a few upgrades. SP is actually closing for January to restructure itself, it's not doing too well.

Then the SLG. Never shot one, but why would I? I've never really seen anyone online that liked theirs. I get tons if the them offered on PbN with other stuff for my F8.

Then your other guns are useless to mention against the X7 and Phenom. Honestly, you are TRYING to put an Etek against a TRUE milsim gun. This is a niche market. You buy thr X7/Phenom for looks, not performance. Good luck getting an ego to look like a real gun for the price of a Tippmann.

Paintball is a niche market. Tippmann sells to woodsballers and scenario players, and also newcomers.

Here's my story: Up until about 3 years ago I knew almost nothing about paintball. I didn't have a field or store within 50 miles of where I lived. All I knew is my local sports shop had Tippmann and Spyder and Tippmanns were better. I used my 98 for years. I put a flatline on it (first gen). I couldn't hit anything. Everyone saw this and I couldn't sell it. I ended up trading it for a Tippmann stock mask from a power pack. I put a response trigger in and my friend put an e-grip in his. It was impossible to hit anything without shooting 100 times. We saw our performance slide until we had gone from the best to the worst. We got rid of our "firing enhancements" and we were fine again. I then invested in an X7, he in an A5. He was happy but saw no performance upgrade from his 98. I immediately had problems with the cyclone. I had replaced the ratchet in about a month. I broke balls in the cyclone continuously. I invested in squishy paddles. They did nothing. I also chopped all the time. I tried every kind of ball I could. My friends were using the same stuff that I was with no problems. I turned the velocity way down. This stopped me from breaking balls but crippled my range. I ended up selling the X7 and going back to my 98 after about 6 months of use. The X7 for me was the last straw. I vowed to never buy another Tippmann product again and to ridicule anyone/everyone who did as being someone who didn't know what a good gun looked like. I since bought an Azodin Blitz, 07 Proto PMR, SP Vibe, and Autococker Trilogy Competition. I have a Pinokio and Empire Reloader B. I also have a Ninja HPA tank (90/45) and a steely from Guerrilla air (62/30). I have Apex's and CP .689 barrels for both threadings. I still play almost exclusively in the woods with my camo. I can count the times on one hand that I've been on an airball field.

Smart Parts WAS hated. That was due to years of subpar guns that reminded people of the Spyders they upgraded from. The Vibe with the Blackheart board is one of, if not the best sub-$300 gun on the market. You want milsim, SP1 is a vibe with tac rails. I am aware that SP is essentially done. GI Milsim is taking over DLX. Hopefully they will with SP as well. 

The SLG is marketed as a cheap Dye gun. That is exactly what it is. It is not made for semi, as is the case with the DM series. The SLG 09 was a complete overhaul from the 08. I have heard nothing but good things from the SLG UL. The basic owners had some grievances. 

So what if the Etek doesn't look like an assault rifle. It shoots like one. As you said, "speedball guns are excellent for the woods." How about at MacDev Drone. $500 and it looks about like an SP1. Essentially the MacDev version of the Etek. 



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MacDev is an amazing company, although if you ask a basic player they will have no clue who they are. Everyone hears about tippmann and their guns because they are fairly low level and easily obtainable.

I would go for the drone if I liked that stuff. It's a bit more expensive though. Most times when someone builds their favorite M4 or something, they do it over time because of money. Tippmanns are like Ions in a way. People buy them then build them up as they go.

Take my dad for instance. He plays with us whether it's in the woods or at the fields. He would take his AB/Egrip anyday over my F8, heck over any gun. He loves that thing. He wants the more realistic feel, and at $130 for an out-of-the box milsim with egrip, it's perfect for him.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2010 at 11:14am
I still don't get the "They're heavy" whine.

I've never had to take a break because my marker was too heavy. In fact, if you run a remote line and are still complaining about weight, you should probably be checked for muscle degeneration.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2010 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I still don't get the "They're heavy" whine.

I've never had to take a break because my marker was too heavy. In fact, if you run a remote line and are still complaining about weight, you should probably be checked for muscle degeneration.
Also a bit unfair comparing a fully milsimed out A5 with mags,stocks, sights etc with a UL speedball marker. I had two A5's that were in fact a bit heavy and honestly got annoying to carry around after awhile, but mainly because the one had a full AK kit and the other a stock, mag,UTG moungt,FL etc. The markers themselves aren't all that heavy, the add ons are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:50am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I still don't get the "They're heavy" whine.

I've never had to take a break because my marker was too heavy. In fact, if you run a remote line and are still complaining about weight, you should probably be checked for muscle degeneration.
Also a bit unfair comparing a fully milsimed out A5 with mags,stocks, sights etc with a UL speedball marker. I had two A5's that were in fact a bit heavy and honestly got annoying to carry around after awhile, but mainly because the one had a full AK kit and the other a stock, mag,UTG moungt,FL etc. The markers themselves aren't all that heavy, the add ons are.

What about the X7 or anything from the US Army line? You can't take some of that stuff off. If you do take off what you can, the gun looks terrible. It's one thing to compare a 98 that looks like a sniper rifle to a speedball gun like an SLG UL. It's another thing to buy an X7 or Alpha Black and compare the weight out of the box to a speedball gun out of the box.
Either way, I couldn't care less about the weight. Many years ago I rocked a 98 that tipped the scales at 22 lbs with a full hopper and 14oz CO2. I had a sniper full body shroud, 6 position stock, I can't remember what the mag was but it wasn't the sniper one, bipod, foregrip, 2 tac lights, 2 lasers one red one green, red dot sight, raised rail, 18" non-ported fluted sniper barrel, metal power tube, Lapco metal feedneck, barrel handguard with 4 picatinny rails, Tippmann drop forward, dishka barrel suppressor, and carry handle with picatinny rail attachment.  I was obsessed with metal parts at the time as much as I was obsessed with Opsgear brand items. FYI, almost everything I mentioned has been discontinued. I even had a Zeus G2+ pistol back then. Still do in the closet somewhere. I did not, however, have a sling. 

Weight isn't the reason I don't like Tippmanns. My beef has to do with form and function. In my opinion, they excel in the former but make up for it in the latter.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 3:55am
Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:

 Weight isn't the reason I don't like Tippmanns. My beef has to do with form and function. In my opinion, they excel in the former but make up for it in the latter.  

That does not make any sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:07am
They look good but don't perform as such.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 4:16pm
They perform perfectly well to my needs and desire. Just because a product doesn't fit your tastes or needs, doesnt make a product "bad." It just is not your preference.

I would like you to explain in detail where a stock Tippmann marker didnt perform "good". I have yet to have such an experience. After market or user created problems do not count since they are beyond the control of the original products scope.

Edited by Hades - 14 January 2010 at 4:18pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

They perform perfectly well to my needs and desire. Just because a product doesn't fit your tastes or needs, doesnt make a product "bad." It just is not your preference.

I would like you to explain in detail where a stock Tippmann marker didnt perform "good". I have yet to have such an experience. After market or user created problems do not count since they are beyond the control of the original products scope.

I agree with your first statement. I said in my opinion, guns are about form and function. Tippmanns excel in the former and lack in the latter.

Very slow firing in semi-automatic. 5 BPS on a Tippmann. Easily 15-20 BPS on anything else. This is one of my biggest grievances and you can't upgrade this on a Tippmann.

Very hard on paint. The bolt slams into the balls which causes them to break a lot easier than the smooth motion of just about every other brand of markers. The cyclone also puts a ton of tension on the ball stack and is not an optional addition for guns other than the 98.

Very inefficient on air. Tippmanns are notorious for being gas-hogs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TinMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 8:07pm
So you don't like Tippmann's. Apparently your the only one that cares!
Your entitled to your opinion 100%, but most of your posts are just bitter
ramblings of how a vibe is supeior, and so on. Heavy, slow.... you hate them.
We get it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by buhju1 buhju1 wrote:

Very slow firing in semi-automatic. 5 BPS on a Tippmann. Easily 15-20 BPS on anything else. This is one of my biggest grievances and you can't upgrade this on a Tippmann.
 
What non-electro is capable of 15-20bps on semi-auto?

Very hard on paint. The bolt slams into the balls which causes them to break a lot easier than the smooth motion of just about every other brand of markers. The cyclone also puts a ton of tension on the ball stack and is not an optional addition for guns other than the 98.
 
Last winter I played on a day that it warmed up to 20 degrees. About the only markers that weren't breaking like crazy were Tippmans. It was actually the least hard on paint including all the higher end markers.

Very inefficient on air. Tippmanns are notorious for being gas-hogs.
 
True, but so are some other markers. Take Automags for instance. I don't really see the big issue. Most every field I go to has all day air, so who cares?


Edited by oldpbnoob - 14 January 2010 at 9:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 10:43pm
You do know egrip and double triggers exist for tippmann, right? You always say they are slow... But, it's mechanical add an egrip and it'll keep up with electros.

Also, cyclones don't keep tension on the ball stack. It spins using excess air, there's no way it would keep consistant tension on the balls without a battery. Torques and Rotors REALLY keep tension on thr stack by using specifc technology that uses slips, not eyes or mics. Also, I hate my torque. I liked my cyclone, never had a problem with it and probably my most consistant loader. Not a fan if halos, my eggs broke, my torque annoys me with it's constant noise and spinning.... None of those problems for the cyclone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2010 at 10:45pm
Disregard bad spelling and grammer. I'm in my iPod.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhju1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2010 at 12:48am
1st: I have never once said that Tippmanns were too heavy for me. I said to some people they might be. In fact, I gave the example of my old 98 which was 22 pounds.

2nd: When I compare a gun, I don't pick a gun like a Dye NT or a DLX Luxe and compare it to a 98 Custom. That's not fair. I pick a gun like the Vibe, which is in the same price bracket. Another example is comparing an Azodin Blitz to an A5. The argument I am proposing is that you can do better than a Tippmann in any budget. I am not trying to sell the Vibe. In fact, I would shy away from anything Smart Parts at the moment as they are temporarily shut down. They may never start again. You won't see much for customer service out of a company that isn't there.

3rd: You can't shoot fast in semi-auto with any Tippmann, e-grip or not. You can with comparable guns like the Blitz, Vibe and so on. The double trigger system for a Tippmann is worthless. It doesn't give you any upgrade whatsoever. The double trigger in comparable electro guns works because the trigger pull is almost non-existant. The trigger pull on a Tippmann is 3 lbs.

4th: Winter play doesn't count for chop and barrel break tests under any circumstances. Even if you live in an area where it doesn't get colder than 70 in the winter. Shells become extremely brittle during exposure to cold either while playing or while the paintball is being shipped from the factory to the store. They are unpredictable and you could buy two cases from the same store at the same time and one could go through perfectly and the other would chop every time.

5th: Automags have been discontinued for quite a while. They were a lot like Tippmanns though. In my opinion, the most durable marker ever made in terms of frame construction.

6th: Cyclones spin forward in a very harsh motion. They do not have smooth operation like most electronic loaders. When I had my X7, I did nothing but break balls in the cyclone. I have yet to break a ball in my Pinokio or my Reloader B. On a side note, I would not buy a loader that had continuous operation. It's hard on paint and batteries.



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