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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 11:09pm
Okay so  I have came from one of the most successful scenario teams in Europe. We had sponsorship from a branch of an extreme sports channel. This went nowhere nobody was interested. It can be done but this boy isn't asking that. He wants to be a pro player, Not set up the new age of profitable paintball.Telling him to stop dreaming is about the best thing you can do.

Smart parts Europe has gone bust for gods sake.The game isn't gonna get any bigger for a while.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 11:32pm
But if he practices for the next ten years he may be good enough to keep people entertained and spending their money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 11:40pm
But he wont.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 11:51pm
I don't care how good someone is at paint ball, I'm not going to sit there and watch them for long periods of time for free, let alone pay for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 11:55pm
Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
 
I don't think it would work live...
 
But, why would it need to be live?

I can't stand to watch games (of any type) that I already know the outcome of.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way which would make any type of league action questionable as far as profit is concerned.
 
I'm thinking more of a survivor type thing. There was a movie I saw a while ago where people would get dropped off on an island and they had cameras all over it to capture the footage, and the guys went out and killed each other (they were all killers from death row). The public would watch and it made me think, if you applied that same video work to paintball it could be an amazing show.

That isn't a bad idea.  That show with the hunters that Sci Fi had on a while back would have been much cooler with paintball markers.  (Although they'd have to find locations without innocent bystanders--doesn't Detroit or some city have blocks of abandoned buildings downtown?)
 
I don't think limiting it to just one camera per player makes sense.
 
If you are going to edit it anyway... Go multicamera.
 
I play with two cameras currently, just for this reason. I have a helmet cam, and also a gun cam. My gun camera doesn't have zoom currently, but I would like to add that to it, so that I can have it zoomed in on the targets, while the helmet cam gets the regular footage. It takes thinking about it to get decent footage, but I've only been doing it a year, and I think I've gotten some decent stuff. One day I will edit together some of my footage into a good video... I just haven't had time yet.

This isn't a bad idea either, but keep in mind the contestants are going to be concentrating on winning/surviving, not "getting a good camera angle."
 
 
but, back to my point, I think if you did a show, and the first half of the show was bio's on the guys playing, then did the actual event, with the action only edited together, a woodsball/scenario could really work well on tv.
 
 
Oh, the outcome would be kept secret. Just like survivor. That show does a great job of keeping the public from knowing who will win... (I did find out who the two finalists were one season though...)
 
I think it could work, but it would take someone grabbing the bull by the horns and figuring it out.
 
I'm sure getting players that are ethical, would be the hardest part, but they are out there. If it were me, I would set it up with a "cheating" ban, so that any player caught wiping would be elimintated from future competition, forever...
 
And also have them sign confidentiality until the episode airs.
 
 
I could see this developed online first, then moving to tv once the viewship got up high enough to warrant corporate sponsors.
 
 
 
 
Its funny to hear people say that how would you start it financially.
 
I'll give you examples since I was there and know how bmx got to the level it is now.
 
Mat, started out with his "BS" Yes it stands for that... contest series.
 
In other words, this was a contest series for the riders, by the riders.
 
The entry fees went into the pot. The winner took the pot. Venues were secured for little or no money, and after about 5 years of these style contests, people started noticing this interesting thing happening.
 
Then sponsors started (after almost 5 years of all this work by Mat, and a few of his friends).
 
Not some big corporate entity. Just a few guys with a dream. Young guys too, that didn't have extra cash, just an idea and the willingness to go after what they dreamed of making.
 
 
Later, espn got on board, and now you have the xgames, Mat got out of it when they eliminated flatland from the events, and it became more corporate... Also one of the reasons he quit riding in the comps for a few years. Lots of the best riders are fans of flatland, like Dave mirra who was a plywood hood in PA when he was a kid, and can do more flatland than most riders... And he is the most decorated xtreme athlete today.
 
 
Oh, and he moved to my hometown, as NC is now riders central for bmx, (pretty big shift since all the riders were west coast when I grew up) all because of our influence in the sport, and push to get the adults to accept us and our effort to build some of the first bikeparks in the country there, when no one else had even heard of them.
 
One of my good friends from NC just emailed me last night as he is in New Orleans doing a halftime show for the Hornets... Good thing he didn't listen to all the haters that said he couldn't make a living from flatland bmx...
 
 
He also does nascar events with this set up...


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 November 2009 at 7:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 10:40am
Here is a  pic from
one of his shows. 
 
 
 
and some whoppers before hand.
 
 
 
and my boy Keith King, still ripping at 40.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Don't let people smash your dreams. Go for it, as they are the lazy ones sitting on the sidelines saying "it can't be done" while others like me and my friends actually DO IT...


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 November 2009 at 10:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:01pm
Yes it is possible for this kid to follow his dreams and become professional and have a ton of money like Tony Hawk.
 
But, we all had dreams when we were young. Some come and pass, some you just give up on. The people you mentioned FE made it, thousands of others didnt.
 
I graduated high school last year, and i was friends with two kids, who throughout highschool wanted to go for skate/bmx.  The skater kid has never had a job, saves his money and buys expensive cameras. He has no job, no license, and failed at applying to community college. Skateboarding got him real far.
 
The BMX kid had a job at a taco place, then began doing drugs along with all of the other kids. He eventually got kicked out of his house, and is now hanging around maryland doing stupid things with his blazer and doing cocaine(last I heard). BUT, he's got a nice BMX bike. Sucessful?
 
Thing is, FE you know some people who made it big. Its a great thing to strive for your goals but you cant always make it into the MLB or whatever.
 
I wanted to do custom fabricating when I was 13. I realized I would go nowhere with it, and decided to ditch the idea. It hurt because I gave up, but now Im enrolled in a four year college. My old BMX friends will probably be in jail/their momsbasement/dead/homeless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:12pm

Actually "millions" didn't.

 
Success is difficult to achieve. Most don't have the gumption to keep going and going and going...
 
The success I have gotten in my life wasn't achieved, it was earned, daily.
 
I didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey, I made it".
 
Everyday I wake up and say, "I love what I am doing", and that is the difference. When you love doing something, you will find ways to keep doing it, do it long enough and you will start looking at ways to make money from it.
 
Fast forward, and after many trials you will start to actually do something with it.
 
For all the millions who "didn't make it". There are thousands of guys that are thrilled with where they are.
 
Do I wish I had kept riding and used my connections to further my career in bmx. Nope, It became to much of a job for me, and I wasn't enjoying it anymore.

I got into stuff I enjoyed more, tv, film production, then moved into the family business, while allowing all the crazy ideas that kept running through my head to become small businesses.
 
Lots of guys told me I was crazy to print flame stickers. But, I wanted some for my stuff. And I started selling them...
 
Turns out lots of people wanted them. I've made over $10,000 selling them...
 
 
I decided to start a bindery business, as it is something I can do with my free time.
 
Last night, I was hard at work after work, while others were relaxing, I was making money with one of my side businesses...
 
Which everyone said I was crazy to start...
 
 
 
 
its all about your focus, and setting goals.


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 November 2009 at 12:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:20pm
All professional sports have high attrition rates. If everyone can do it, then there wouldnt be a need for professionals. But for the few that are motivated enough, practice enough, and is a go getter, there is a much greater chance of it happening.

In FE's example, Matt Hoffman took 15 years to get where he wanted. Tony Hawk and his parent's support took decades to get him to the point where he is now. Johnny Knoxville, Bam Margaria, and all the "Jackass" crew all made it big after years of help from Big Brother Magazine. Until the past skating boom, a skater had to do many years of winning getting their pictures in thrasher, making their own videos, to get noticed. When the money was rolling in, all you had to do to get sponsored, go on tours, and turn pro, was to win a few tourneys. Now most of them are getting dropped and struggling to keep going. But that is business. There are many blue and white collar workers in the same position.

No one is say that if you practice every Saturday, that you can graduate from high school, get paid to do your hobby, and retire after a few years. But if you really want to do something, practice it, get good, get recognized, sell yourself, and hopefully profit.



Edited by God - 20 November 2009 at 12:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:30pm
Exactly... Well said god.
 
 
But, without a series of goals, you won't get anywhere. I remember talking to Tony about how instead of pushing a brand, aka sponsor, you have to push yourself, YOUR identity.
 
That is the key. If YOU are the thing people buy into, then it doesn't matter much what you sell. They are looking at you.
 
I still do this to this day, and when I go out to sell whatever, I am selling ME, not the product. They get my service in printing. Or when I'm cleaning fish tanks, Its ME they get, who will show up when promised every time, and bill according to the actual cost, not inflated. (made over $1,100 this month on that company)...
 
 
But, no one will do it for you. You have to do it yourself. Most people don't  have the gumption to do it, as it isn't easy.
 
Guys called me FreeEnterprise since I was 15... I've always been selling stuff, and for me, its fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
 
Don't let people smash your dreams. Go for it, as they are the lazy ones sitting on the sidelines saying "it can't be done" while others like me and my friends actually DO IT...


Just to ask FE, but what have you done? You say you were pro in a sport that when you were pro didn't actually make you successful People your age were also pro in paintball back then but it didn't make them successful.

Cool you were around the BMX scene back in the day and had some sponsorships, got some free stuff. You were a good rider and probably still are. I am tempted at contacting some of your "friends" and ask them if they even know your name.

Also, BMX=/=paintball. It isn't anywhere near as exciting when not doing it yourself. Look at all these pictures.  You have people 15 feet in the air, or a couple feet off the ground doing crazy things with a bike. People see this and recognize the skill. This makes it interesting. There is not a single thing in paintball that you could see and recognize the individual skill of the player. Well there are a couple things you can if you play paintball.

Can you see the individual skill in this video? I can 4 things, that non players will never notice.




Edited by jmac3 - 20 November 2009 at 12:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
 
Don't let people smash your dreams. Go for it, as they are the lazy ones sitting on the sidelines saying "it can't be done" while others like me and my friends actually DO IT...


Just to ask FE, but what have you done? You say you were pro in a sport that when you were pro didn't actually make you successful People your age were also pro in paintball back then but it didn't make them successful.

Cool you were around the BMX scene back in the day and had some sponsorships, got some free stuff. You were a good rider and probably still are. I am tempted at contacting some of your "friends" and ask them if they even know your name.

Also, BMX=/=paintball. It isn't anywhere near as exciting when not doing it yourself. Look at all these pictures.  You have people 15 feet in the air, or a couple feet off the ground doing crazy things with a bike. People see this and recognize the skill. This makes it interesting. There is not a single thing in paintball that you could see and recognize the individual skill of the player. Well there are a couple things you can if you play paintball.

Can you see the individual skill in this video? I can 4 things, that non players will never notice.

 
 
When I started riding BMX, I wanted to go pro. That was my goal, I was the top rated 18 and over expert in flatland in the NBL in 1990,
 
 
I purchased 1 bike in my entire biking career. ONE. All the rest were given to me by sponsors, or were replaced by the manufacturer for breaking. I was sponsored by tons of huge companies. Oakley, Vans, GT/Dyno, Schwinn, Hammer, Dia-Compe and more.
 
 I claimed the title as the best in the world in the NBL in 1990 in my class, and moved to the pro class. 1991, I was the flatland instructor at Woodward bmx camp. I rode with and hung out with most of the top pro's of the day in bmx and skate at the time. We had many discussions about how to grow the sport. Tony and I talked a ton then.
 
Here is a pic I took during that summer, all of these guys are very famous in bmx. Kevin Jones, the second guy is the best flatlander of all time, ask anyone in flatland who the best ever is, and they will say him.
 
If you see him, ask him if he knows me... First he will laugh as I was crazy back in the day...
 
 
I was in tons of bmx videos back in the day, lots of newspapers, I did the first bmx show during a halftime of a basketball game in 1992.
 
 
 
After freestyle, I got into the movie and tv industry, I was a beta tester for Avid, and many of the controls on the current avid composer series are from my input. I also am a certified steadycam operator. I filmed ms america pagents, and early ultimate fighting, as well as tons of sporting events. I worked on the film Hudsucker proxy at Carlico studios, while my peersr were drinking at spring break.
 
I started buying and selling houses in 1994. I made offers on tons of houses and bought 5 that I remodeled and sold for profit during the next 10 years. In 2004 I took all that profit and my wife designed and I had built my dream home, using money I made along the way, plus the huge profits off my real estate transactions.
 
I've started multiple companies that I am in the process of growing, and I help run my families printing company.
 
With the internet exploding I've reconnected with many of my old bmx friends over the years, and it has made me realize that we did something that most people think can't be done. And the fact that so many of us were successful makes me wonder what made us different...
 
 
I think it is because we didn't do the "normal" things. We did what was fun. And learned to make money from that.
 
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 November 2009 at 1:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 12:56pm
Why is basketball popular? nothing really spectacular about that.
 
What about baseball?
 
How about soccer?
 
 
Paintball is just as exciting, the only difference is, that no one has captured that excitement in a way that makes it fun to watch yet.
 
But, technology is changing.
 
Bmx would have blown up faster if the internet was around in the early 90's. Today, much of the interest is because you can see what is going on all and pick it up. Most of the best flatlanders today live outside of the US... The internet made that possible.
 
I see paintball the same way, with proper filming/editing, you could make some really cool stuff, that guys would love to watch, and when they do, they buy stuff...
 
what is the age range for paintball? I've had guys in their 70's play with my group. Shoot my father in law is one of the best that plays with us, and he is 59!
 
The demographics is so much bigger than bmx...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 1:17pm
BMX=/= R/C cars either...
 
But, when I thought, hey, that tree looks like the kind I used to ride on my bike?... I wonder if I could do backflips off of it with my R/C car...
 
After a few tries...
 
 
(yeah, I knocked the bird feeder off and broke it, doh!)
 
 
 
And Traxxas published them...
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^^^^ Maybe you should go pro.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Just to ask FE, but what have you done? You say you were pro in a sport that when you were pro didn't actually make you successful ...

Cool you were around the BMX scene back in the day and had some sponsorships, got some free stuff. ...
 
I'll answer that.  He got to travel around riding bikes for money for a while.  He got paid to do his hobby, if only for a few years.
 
How is that not awesome?  Sure, he didn't end up as rich or famous as Tony Hawk, but you don't have to end up rich to be "successful."
 
I know a guy who played minor league ball for several years.  Had two major league at bats, but didn't quite make it.  Left pro ball and went to law school, and is now a lawyer. 
 
How is that any different from what FE did?  Both spent years learning a sport, became good enough to where they could make a living - but not good enough to get rich, and then moved on to "regular" jobs.
 
Sounds pretty cool to me.   Sounds like a pretty good accomplishment to me.  If every skater but Tony Hawk is a failure, then we are setting the bar at a meaninglessly high level.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Just to ask FE, but what have you done? You say you were pro in a sport that when you were pro didn't actually make you successful ...

Cool you were around the BMX scene back in the day and had some sponsorships, got some free stuff. ...
 
I'll answer that.  He got to travel around riding bikes for money for a while.  He got paid to do his hobby, if only for a few years.
 
How is that not awesome?  Sure, he didn't end up as rich or famous as Tony Hawk, but you don't have to end up rich to be "successful."
 
I know a guy who played minor league ball for several years.  Had two major league at bats, but didn't quite make it.  Left pro ball and went to law school, and is now a lawyer. 
 
How is that any different from what FE did?  Both spent years learning a sport, became good enough to where they could make a living - but not good enough to get rich, and then moved on to "regular" jobs.
 
Sounds pretty cool to me.   Sounds like a pretty good accomplishment to me.  If every skater but Tony Hawk is a failure, then we are setting the bar at a meaninglessly high level.
 


I didn't say everyone but Tony Hawk is a failure. I also didn't say that what FE did isn't cool.

It's just that he says he followed his dreams and goals and became successful doing something, where really he didn't. Yes he was high ranked and did for maybe a little bit of money, but even being at that level he had to go into the real world. He didn't make it a career like all these other names that he drops.

I played paintball tournaments for free this year, and next year I will have a gun for free. Am I successful in this sport?


Also, Basketball is popular because half the world plays it. It takes noticeable skill to do something because so many people know they can't do it.

Same with baseball. People can marvel at smashing a homerun, or making a diving catch, knowing that they couldn't do it. They probably tried when they were younger.

Same with football, and soccer.

Paintball on the other hand is people running around with guns. Where is the noticeable skill? Anyone watching will always say "oh anyone can shoot someone with a gun"


Edited by jmac3 - 20 November 2009 at 2:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

 I played paintball tournaments for free this year, and next year I will have a gun for free. Am I successful in this sport?

Yes, you are more successful than those that are not playing in tournaments for free and not getting a free gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2009 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

But, we all had dreams when we were young. Some come and pass, some you just give up on.


I always dreamed of wasting hours of time (that could be better spent doing something else) on an internet forum and eventually earning recognition as a conservative-leaning, mildly-humorous smart-aleck.  Sadly, I . . . hmmmm . . . hey wait a minute . . . I made it!  My dream has come true and my life is complete.  Yay me!

To get back to FE's idea about "Survivor-Paintball;" I think it would work better if the contestants were not "pro" players.


Edited by Mack - 20 November 2009 at 3:05pm
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