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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 1:53pm
Ahh, you guys are thinking inside the box... Normal for most I realize, but you have to look at the big picture.
 
I'm 37. I put away my bmx shoes a long time ago (when I was around 22) and "grew up". Everyone said then that the only young guys would ride bmx. And yet, some of the most famous are guys I grew up riding with, I understand why, as it takes so long to get to that level, and bmx is a sport that is all about muscle control and balance, which can be learned over time. (I can still jump on my bike and do super hard stuff, that most could never do, not because I still practice, but because of the practice and muscle memory my body has carried).
 
But, my point is this, BMX is targeted to youth, typical age of a bmx rider is around 12 most are age 7-16...
 
Now, look at paintball... Do you need to be able to bunnyhop 4 feet in the air to play?... A skill that takes years to develop...
 
Nope, anyone can pick up a paintball gun, and for not a lot of money you can get on the field.
 
Personally, I don't see the "current" form ever becoming like the xgames. But, I do see a future that has giant "fieldball" type scenario matches, where the best players from around the world come to compete for the gold medal in paintball... That could happen, and since paintball isn't limited to just kids... (The average age at my events is 40!) This appeals to a much larger demographic.
 
Which equals more people to draw from, that will be buying gear that pays the "pro's" income...
 
 
We shall see, it would take some guys with the ability to market it. And the time, but I could see it happening.
 
 
 
Remember, everyone said BMX was dead in the 90's....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 

 

 
Nope, anyone can pick up a paintball gun, and for not a lot of money you can get on the field.
 


This is why you are wrong.

With that statement alone you have obviously never played tournament paintball.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 

 

 
Nope, anyone can pick up a paintball gun, and for not a lot of money you can get on the field.
 


This is why you are wrong.

With that statement alone you have obviously never played tournament paintball.
 
And that is why you can't understand how it could become something...
 
You only see "tournament" paintball as the way to progress...
 
Guess what, tournament paintball is BORING to watch. Wow, look at how they broke and ran behind a bunker while shooting 2,000 paintballs in three seconds.
 
Whoop dee dooo!...
 
Color America bored.
 
 
That is why paintball hasn't hit it big yet.
 
I play with a tippmann marker, (a-5) it does what I want it to do, semi auto no fancy trigger...
 
And when I play with my friends in the woods, we have a blast. (as much fun as I used to have at contests, where I had to spend years getting the skill level to be that good)...
 
See?
 
Fun is fun.
 
If "paintballers" only consider "tournament" as the future... Then you guys are probably right. It would never pick up. I have tried to watch paintball that is shown on tv. It is so boring, I'd rather watch msnbc... (yeah, that bad).
 
But, woodsball, I enjoy watching that, as it is different, and you can feel the adrenalin even watching it.
 
I've been playing for like three years now. And I started videoing my stuff this year... I see so many ways that with the right set up (from a production viewpoint) paintball could be very cool to film. Especially if you had cameras on each player, as well as up in the tree's picking up the action. Plus tons of field stuff like mines, tanks, and more...
 
Very cool, and a perfect TV fit.
 
 
 
But, running from the start to hide behind pillows of air....
 
 
 
lame.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:09pm
 
 
Here is some footage from my birthday bash this year... Way too much fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:12pm
The cost of one tournament could easily pay for a BMX bike. Paintball is way too expensive. Professional athletes in BMX and skating are so wealthy because they do so much promotion. They do tv ads, go to competitions and tours and get their sponsorship names out. Paintball has not become a consistent television sport and I doubt it ever will be. It's not something you can watch every weekend on ESPN so therefore players can't really get paid to get the name out there except for the small group of people that actually play and care.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:16pm
Woodsball the perfect TV fit? Lol.

Woodsball is fun. I like playing it. I also like playing tournaments.

If paintball is ever going to be big it HAS to be out of the woods. You can't watch a woods game. It is harder to understand what is going on there than it is on a speedball field. Not to mention the size of the fields.

The difference between woods and speedball? Wow look he broke and ran behind that tree shooting 12 balls a second, WHOOP DE DOO!

Paintball is not made to be more of a mainstream sport than it is, nor will it ever be.

Have you ever tried to watch a woodsball tournament on TV? God damn that is boring as hell.

What is happening in woodsball game that makes it more exciting to watch than an xball match? And I use Xball because 7man is stupid and slow.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 

 

 
Nope, anyone can pick up a paintball gun, and for not a lot of money you can get on the field.
 


This is why you are wrong.

With that statement alone you have obviously never played tournament paintball.
 
And that is why you can't understand how it could become something...
 
You only see "tournament" paintball as the way to progress...

I highly doubt that you can succeed in a woodsball career, especially being as no company would sponsor you
 
Guess what, tournament paintball is BORING to watch. Wow, look at how they broke and ran behind a bunker while shooting 2,000 paintballs in three seconds.

it is actually very entertaining to watch the strategy of a team unfold, and to see amazing comebacks that would most likely not happen in a woodsball secnarion
 
I play with a tippmann marker, (a-5) it does what I want it to do, semi auto no fancy trigger...

and you are sponsored by...?
 
And when I play with my friends in the woods, we have a blast. (as much fun as I used to have at contests, where I had to spend years getting the skill level to be that good)...

you cant make a career having a blast in the woods with your friends

If "paintballers" only consider "tournament" as the future... Then you guys are probably right. It would never pick up. I have tried to watch paintball that is shown on tv. It is so boring, I'd rather watch msnbc... (yeah, that bad).

tournament paintball is what will be happening in the future. it is extremely hard to film all aspects of a woodsball game and then market if for TV. on a speedball course, all you need is a few overhead cameras on cable runners
 
Very cool, and a perfect TV fit.

i doubt it would ever make it to national tv. and if it did, it wouldnt last very long
 
 
 
But, running from the start to hide behind pillows of air....

running to hide behind trees. whoo hoo fun!
 
 
 
and for the love of god, please stop posting that video, nobody watches it on here

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:20pm
Is there supposed to be something entertaining in that woodsball video? If you'd like  I can post a video too.

By me finding your video boring, and you finding my video boring PROVES my point. Paintball is boring to watch. If you play it you have more of a chance of being entertained by it. Not everyone is going to like it.

Here watch and say you're bored:

http://vimeo.com/7419603
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:40pm
Hard to make a comparison, between a professionaly filmed and edited video... Vs, my helmet cam...
 
 
You are still missing the point, Watching someone run and jump and slide is ok... But, if you change the perspective so that the viewer feels like THEY are the one in the game, that is what would make it cool.
 
Here is an idea. How about take 10 guys, and you get a bio on each. Then you pick the guy you think would capture the flag.
 
You watch the footage from their perspective, with cameras in the trees to show movement, and action.
 
I think that would be super cool to watch, and with the helmet cam footage you feel like you are there. Even when you aren't.
 
Like nascar when they go inside the car... Way better than just watching from the sidelines.
 
 

There are lots of ways to make it work... But, tournament is just looks the exact same every game to the casual viewer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical3.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:45pm
I don't know what is more boring. Watching those boring videos or reading about how boring paintball is to watch.



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Hard to make a comparison, between a professionaly filmed and edited video... Vs, my helmet cam...

Lol I wished it looked good enough to actually fool someone into thinking it was professionally filmed and edited. Thanks for the compliment I guess? Seeing as how it is mine
 
 
You are still missing the point, Watching someone run and jump and slide is ok... But, if you change the perspective so that the viewer feels like THEY are the one in the game, that is what would make it cool.

That would get boring after the first time seeing it...
 
Here is an idea. How about take 10 guys, and you get a bio on each. Then you pick the guy you think would capture the flag.
 
So basically follow one guy around and not even see the rest of the game going on?

You watch the footage from their perspective, with cameras in the trees to show movement, and action.

This has been done in paintball videos See PUSH  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZlJzZc9zCo
 
I think that would be super cool to watch, and with the helmet cam footage you feel like you are there. Even when you aren't.

Yes you think. I think that would be boring. As do many other people.
 
Like nascar when they go inside the car... Way better than just watching from the sidelines.

Nascar has a huge following of people that don't race because they like to see it.
 
 

There are lots of ways to make it work... But, tournament is just looks the exact same every game to the casual viewer.

It looks the exact same in the woods also. People running through the woods shooting guns. Not to mention in the woods is much more wargame looking keeping it even further out of mainstream
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 3:04pm
Even perspective video isn't that exciting. Usually you can't tell what the player is looking at and the movement is too much. Most of the time, the camera would be staring at the sidelines or the bunker right in front of the player.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 3:05pm
What he said^
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 6:00pm
My reason for thinking paintball will never get as big as other sports: Lack of central focus point. Everyone is shooting at everyone. You're not following a ball around or a guy on a bike. Everything is happening all at once.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 6:28pm
Also, there isn't anything impressively physical about paintball.  You're never going to see a slam dunk that breaks the backboard a la Shaq, and for that matter, runthroughs and such get boring around the third time you see them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

My reason for thinking paintball will never get as big as other sports: Lack of central focus point. Everyone is shooting at everyone. You're not following a ball around or a guy on a bike. Everything is happening all at once.


^^^This.

While woodsball could have a focal point (the flag) I have seen numerous games where all the action happens away from the flag and it is picked up as an afterthought by the survivors once all of their opponents have been eliminated. 

Helmet/strategically placed cams might catch enough action to make the game interesting to watch, but without heavy editing it couldn't be presented as a coherent set of events.  Once the editing is done, the game is no longer "live" which can relate to loss of interest in watching anything other than highlights. 

BMX has a focal point where the action is automatically located (the rider currently competing) paintball doesn't.  It is just the nature of the sport.  However, since we are having this discussion, I am curious if anyone has ideas for format changes that might make paintball (woods or speed) more TV friendly.

My thoughts: (related to woods/scenario)
  • Smaller teams
  • Specific scenario based
  • Gun, as opposed to helmet, cams
  • Urban setting (possibly a single street with one-level "roofless" buildings to aid in filming--a large warehouse where overhead walks for cameramen would be good)
  • Bright paint with distinctive colors for each team
  • Larger caliber paint for bigger splats
  • Hard vests/no padding to ensure breaks
Even so, I can't see the necessary expenses required for an enjoyable production being recouped.

(Hmmm . . . what about Laser Tag type fields?)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Hard to make a comparison, between a professionaly filmed and edited video... Vs, my helmet cam...
 
 
You are still missing the point, Watching someone run and jump and slide is ok... But, if you change the perspective so that the viewer feels like THEY are the one in the game, that is what would make it cool.
 
Here is an idea. How about take 10 guys, and you get a bio on each. Then you pick the guy you think would capture the flag.
 
You watch the footage from their perspective, with cameras in the trees to show movement, and action.
 
I think that would be super cool to watch, and with the helmet cam footage you feel like you are there. Even when you aren't.
 
Like nascar when they go inside the car... Way better than just watching from the sidelines.
 
 

There are lots of ways to make it work... But, tournament is just looks the exact same every game to the casual viewer.

Nice theory. Apparently you haven't seen the movie 'DOOM' though. First person isn't a very good entertainment medium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2009 at 10:23pm
Anyone else depressed by this thread?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 12:42am
No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2009 at 1:16am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

 
Nice theory. Apparently you haven't seen the movie 'DOOM' though. First person isn't a very good entertainment medium.

I disagree with you. I sat thru that movie and the only 30 seconds of that film I enjoyed was when the camera when into a FPS perspective, since that is was how I experienced the game.

The Tour' De France has a billion riders for reporters to focus on and I feel the live feed people do a decent job picking where and when to focus their cameras.

While I do not normally agree with most of FE's post and opinions, I dont think his direction of thinking is not  too offbase. 

If there is something someone really wants enough and are willing to put in the work to make it happen, in most cases it can happen. Just because there is not the set up for a high paying sports position in paint ball, doesnt mean that will be the case in 5, ten, fifteen years. There are plenty of pro skaters that I had the pleasure to meet and skate with (when they passed through my hometown area at demos, competitions, and local skateshops) in the late 80s and early 90s that were (and some still are) household names when skating was a huge fad a few years back.

Here is a trailer of a documentary recently filmed about my hometown area. 


I recognize most, if not all the skating locations from the film. I was never anywhere near the skill of the skaters that are showcased in that film, that turned pro and eventual worldwide names. Back in the 80s and until the late 90's, skating was a sport nobody thought would go anywhere and it eventually did.

Just because the opportunities arent here now, dont give up and practice as much as you can until the opportunity is there. And your never going to get somewhere if you dont try.


Edited by God - 19 November 2009 at 2:11am
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