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US Soldier Mom refuses deployment

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    Posted: 17 November 2009 at 10:48am
 
 
Discuss.
 
tl/dr: Single mom in army can't find someone to watch her kid, so she skips her flight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:23am
What exactly is she supposed to do? Leave them on the street and say have fun! Be back in 6 months! (maybe)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:25am
I support her decision.

Her duty to her child is greater than her duty to the military.


Edited by Bolt3 - 17 November 2009 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:27am
As long as this is legit, and she actually let them know prior to their deployment and as long as this is not a ploy to get out of going, I support her decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:29am
I agree with the above comments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:39am
Let's play Devil's Advocate, and say she isn't able to find suitable child care? She signed a contract stating that she had said child care and obviously didn't. Should she be jailed? Discharged? Honorably? Dishonorably? If she is allowed to stay in the Army and reassigned, what sort of precedence does this set? It's not like she signed up during peace time and "oh crap!" we went to war. She signed up during an ongoing war, fully knowing that she would most likely get deployed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Grimm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 11:48am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Let's play Devil's Advocate, and say she isn't able to find suitable child care? She signed a contract stating that she had said child care and obviously didn't. Should she be jailed? Discharged? Honorably? Dishonorably? If she is allowed to stay in the Army and reassigned, what sort of precedence does this set? It's not like she signed up during peace time and "oh crap!" we went to war. She signed up during an ongoing war, fully knowing that she would most likely get deployed.
 
That goes both ways.  The Army allowed her to enlist, knowing that she had a child (or might have a child), and put her on the deployment list knowing that she had primary care of a child.  What kind of foolish employer puts themselves in that position?
 
While the soldier may be a fool for signing up for a job she cannot fulfill, the Army is equally a fool for putting people in jobs they cannot fulfill.  The Army should either change their policy on enlisting/assigning/deploying single parents, or provide a means to allow them to serve (childcare in Iraq probably isn't very attractive, but I am trying to think outside the sandbox here).
 
But for now, between the two of them, they have created quite a silly situation.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Ben Grimm Ben Grimm wrote:

 That goes both ways.  The Army allowed her to enlist, knowing that she had a child (or might have a child), and put her on the deployment list knowing that she had primary care of a child.  What kind of foolish employer puts themselves in that position? 
So you are saying that single parents should be excluded from active deployment options? Wouldn't that effectively make it pointless to even enlist them? Taking it maybe a bit far, but what would keep someone with second thoughts about deploying from arranging their childs spouse to take a powder and leave them as sole caretaker? Seems like a bit of a loophole.
 
You can't (legally) exclude the hiring of single parents from jobs that would require extensive travel in the private sector, should the government be exempt from such restrictions?
 
What are the actual regulations on single parenthood in the military? If GI Joe is in action and his wife dies suddenly leaving his child at home parentless, do they take him out of action and reassign him? Or does he get discharged? I would be curious if anyone knows.
 
Are we looking at a double standard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:40pm
If she has a child that needs taking care of, what the hell is she doing in the military? She has a child that needs her, THAT is her responsibility. What's the other side of this, she manages to find a person to look after her kid, and then gets K.I.A, what now for that kid? I know they wouldn't be the first to lose a parent to the war at all, but what on earth is she thinking?

When will we need a license to have children?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:48pm
By regulations a single parent MUST have a valid Child Care Plan for the event of deployment. Opening up enlistment to single parents was hailed as a victory for females and created a Equal Opertunity Enviornment as stated by the usual suspects.

Upon her enlistment and at regular intervals single parents must update thier Child Care Plan, and document any changes in status ASAP.

The female single parent had no problem collecting her paycheck, any bonuses, and all benifits provided by the military. It was HER responsibility to keep the Child Care Plan current (part of the Deployment Packet) for all change of station/deployment orders are based on review of all critical personnel issues.

I see this as a UCMJ issue, she defrauded the US Government by signing up for a job she could not do (possibly know at time of enlistment). Minimal action should be a General Discharge, forfieture of all pay and allowances on unit deployment (if she has not seperated by deployment date)and a RE-4 re-enlistment code (can not re-enlist even if personal circumstances change).

Many single parents serve and do so without problem, the system works, if the soldier in question follows regulations. This one individual can not and did not provide the required Child Care Plan, under regulations, so it is on her not the military.

The soon to be pity party will not be told how she did not follow regulations, only how harsh the military is to single parents, which is not the case in 99.9% of single parent servicemembers,

Edited by oldsoldier - 17 November 2009 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:55pm
That's pretty much what it comes down to.  Bad decisions on both sides created this problem, and I'm not sure either side will benefit from the outcome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:56pm
Somewhat in her defense, the child is 10 months old and she joined in 2007, so she actually became pregnant while on active duty. But this raises interesting questions as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Troopr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 12:59pm
First Impression:
I think she should stay with the child, but I don't agree with her not serving if she enlisted. I don't agree with the criminal charges ether... I think she should maybe serve from behind a desk, in the states... or something.... but I don't think she should get out of serving her country... and I don't think criminal charges are necessary.

Just my opinion... Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fuzzey5-0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Somewhat in her defense, the child is 10 months old and she joined in 2007, so she actually became pregnant while on active duty. But this raises interesting questions as well.


Like what?

Should stupid people reproduce?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:03pm
She's an Army cook is the first line.

It's not like she is in communications/infantry/anything that is a necessity.

Not that cooks aren't needed to be deployed, but I am sure they could live without one.

Also, OS you saying she should give up pay? She has been in the army for 2 years(since 2007) and the kid is only 10 months. Obviously she got pregnant after she was in. She didn't go in with a kid and is now making it an issue.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:09pm
Actually single females by regulation and UCMJ can not get pregnant during a term of voluntary service (subject to a Chaptered Discharge and loss of pay and allowances), and males can also be charged if they father a child (creating a dependant) also during a term of voluntary service. The old Ask Your Commander for Permission still is on the books, that pertains to marriage as well.

The regulations and UCMJ on the issue are quite clear, and she should have consulted the JAG office on all these Change of Status issues long prior to any deployment orders.

Yes, she should be charged, and chaptered out, if not it will set back womans rights issues in the military so many have upheld only to have this one individual turn it into a I told you so exercise for those who do not want singel parents in the military.

Her behavior while in service has consequences, and as in the outside world, ignorance of the law is no excuse. She was well aware of what the single parent status is, and had to be counciled by the Chain OF Command on her new duties and resonsibilities upon child birth (as a singler parent). To the Army under regulations (which she had to be made aware of) it was her responsibility to have a valid Child Care Plan or ask for an immediate Chaptered Discharge upon the birth of the child.

Edited by oldsoldier - 17 November 2009 at 1:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:14pm
So let's say the the pregnancy was accidental. I am going to assume it was. What should she do then?

Should she have aborted it to stay in the army or should they just not deploy her?

I don't see the need to discharge the woman. Her job in the army is something that can be done effectively in the US with the same result.

Also, she had a child care plan. That plan is no longer an option. How do you know she didn't inform them?


Edited by jmac3 - 17 November 2009 at 1:16pm
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:15pm
OS just brought up the poitn I wanted to comment on.  I don't know how I feel about this particular issue, but what does this say about women being sent to frontlines, deployed, etc.  What happens when a woman finds out she's pregnant a month or two into a deployment?  I feel like there are so many side issues to this that it's a HUGE can of worms that no one is going to want to discuss publicly.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:21pm
So in order to fullfill her contract and to avoid doing her job within her unit, all a single female soldier has to do is get pregnant. What does that do for the morale of the unit, and womens rtights within the military. Fair and equal treatment I believe was the mantra to allow single mothers to continue to serve. To give her an 'easy out' while other single parents are deployed is unfair to those who followed the regulation. The rule is the rule, she violated regulations, and to protect the rights of other female single parents she should NOT recieve special treatment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2009 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Fuzzey5-0 Fuzzey5-0 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Somewhat in her defense, the child is 10 months old and she joined in 2007, so she actually became pregnant while on active duty. But this raises interesting questions as well.


Like what?

Should stupid people reproduce?
I'm fully against stupid people reproducing......
 
What is the actual rule involving the death of a parent? If an active soldiers spouse dies leaving a child with no alternative care, what are the soldiers options?  
 


Edited by oldpbnoob - 17 November 2009 at 1:32pm
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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