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Nazi Funeral

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    Posted: 10 November 2009 at 5:52pm
Myself, being a history buff, got hooked on a weird topic.
 
In 1945, at Fort Leavenworth Kansas the last "mass execution" by the US Government took place, which involved the hanging of 14 German soldiers who murdered fellow Nazi POWs in prison.
 
My question is, I read online that there is a picture at the Museum at Leavenworth of a Nazi funeral(nazi flags, hitler salutes etc), but it doesnt specify where it was taken. My question is, if a POW died in the US(execution or otherwise) would he recieve a military funeral on US grounds? The POWs were buried in leavenworth.
 
In addition, if a German WWII vet were to die today, would he recieve a modern German military funeral, a Nazi funeral(at least the flag) or purely civilian?
 
Also, what about a USSR vet dieing today? Sickle and hammer, or new Russian flag?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 5:55pm
Well seeing as German WW2 vet=/= nazi they would probably get a standard military funeral.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 6:46pm
what jmac said...it could also depend on what was in the vets will, but seeings how the swastika and other nazi parafanalia are now banned in germany, i doubt they would get a nazi funeral at all.

there was an episode of its always sunny in philly about that one time i think
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 7:45pm
Under German Law, non SS Veterans of WW2 are entitled to 'Honor' Funerals. Any awards recieved for valor and service 1933-1945, are allowed to be worn by the deceased unaltered to include any with prominant Nazi markings. The National Ensign of Germany, either Imperial Germany (pre 1933) or post WW2 West German will be flown, upon request the veteran can have the National Service Ensign of The German Service (Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegmarine) served 1933-1945 folded unseen in the coffin. Veterans of the era serving as "Comraden" may also wear any awards or ribbons from the era unaltered.

Karl Donitz (Kriegsmarine U-Boats), Adolf Galland (Luftwaffe, and Bundeswehr General)), Erich Topp (U-Boat Commander and Bundeswehr Admiral)were classic State Military Funerals post WW2, where for the actual graveside service Comrades and Subordinates surviving were allowed to wear awards from the Era, current Bundeswehr could not attend the graveside service in Uniform, but each had a standing Bundeswehr Honor Guard during the viewing phase of the funeral.

As the WW2 veterans become fewer and fewer and the truth of the era show that soldat served Germany as soldiers served the US, Britian. The hatred has died down. And the awards are allowed to be worn on that day and that day only. A tradition in the "Waffen Kellars" of Germany post war was the veterans having no such organization as out VFW, American Legion etc, the veterans would wear thier awards inside thier jascket on meeting nights.

Now that being said any member of the SS or Waffen SS is excempt form this exception and are not allow to display any of thier awards or have the National Ensign 1933-1945 displayed at thier funeral. The German people have mad the distinction from the average Soldat serving (all males 16-45 had to serve)to the SS, a totally differant animal.

Soviet Veterans of WW2 can have either a Russian Federation Funeral or a Soviet Style Funeral, with all awards and decorations displayed on the uniform, either worn by the deceased, or hung alongside the casket on viewing. Current Russian Federation services allow serving individuals to wear Soviet era awards if entitled.

POW's who die under confinement by US Forces are allowed to have a funeral as if they died at home. Many times German POW's passed away under US care up until 1946, Each was allowed if not returned to Germany to have a German Funeral to include the Honors of the National Ensign with Swastika. Post 1946 for Nuremburg convictees this rule was not applicable, and up until 1950 Funerals for returned remains were allowed within West Germany with full military honors to include Nazi symbology.

Edited by oldsoldier - 10 November 2009 at 7:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 11:13pm
So...
 
1. The aforementioned executed prisoners had a full Nazi funeral.
 
2. Nazi funerals are allowed today, sans swastika flags.
 
Somehow I knew OS would know the answer.
 
My question is, was the treatment the same for any American/Allied POWs? Obviously not in the Pacific(although American POWs were not tourtured like the Chinese POWs), but what about Germany?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 11:17pm
Wow. Cool. Thanks OS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2009 at 11:38pm
POW's 1942-1945 held by Germany if dieing under German Custody were also allowed to have a Full Honor Military Funeral, complete with US Flag/Ensign. German Officers would usually attend in full dress uniform as a show of respect at these funerals. The Luftwaffe actually sent representitives to Berlin for the remains of the Stalag Luft III 50 (the 50 allied prisoners executed by the Gestapo after 'The Great Escape') Goering relented and also demanded that the remains recieve a military funeral. Those remains found were intered with military honors at Stalag Luft III, and returned to thier respective countries after the war.

The entire Nazi era has been reviewed and the Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces) were not the evil monsters as portrayed for the most part, and actual Nazi party members withing the leadership and ranks was only 35%. Many high ranking officers refused to join the party, and would resist any attempt of Nazi idealogy to take hold in the ranks.

I had the oppertunity to talk to many German veterans during my tours in Germany. At night after operations ceased we would be in the Gasthouse or "waffen kellers" and the soldiers songs, pictures, comraderie, made many of us realize they were no differant than us fighting for thier nation. The German people also began to recognize thier veterans and monuments began to appear with the names from the community lost in the war. In Kiel the U-Boat memorial lists every boat lost, and all the crews with the boats, In Munich at the Bundeswehr museum there is a monumant to the German Soldier of WW1 and WW2, and thier sacrifice for Germany. The Germans have begun a great interest in the war years, and trying to find thier identity. A german aircraft company is making replica's and restoring Bf-109's, FW-190's, and fly a real rebuilt ME-262 jet fighter. The German armor museum is activly working with Russia to recover remains (Russians plowed over German Graveyards post war)and vehicles to restore.

There is a very distinct comraderie among soldiers, and German Wermacht Leaders and the US had an understanding, to treat each other's POW's with respect and in our case the German POW was treated better than our own colored soldiers. Read accounts of the German POW's in Nebraska, Iowa, South Dakota, they had to be fed at the same level as ourt troops, so they actually had more food rationed than the local populace.

Edited by oldsoldier - 10 November 2009 at 11:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 November 2009 at 12:38pm
Hmm... Interesting. You have any good links for me to read about this sttuff?
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