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Abortion is covered in Obamacare...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Abortion is covered in Obamacare...
    Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:28pm
http://republicanleader.house.gov/blog/?p=666
 
 

Health care reform should not be used as an opportunity to use federal funds to pay for elective abortions. Health reform should be an opportunity to protect human life - not end it.

Unfortunately, Speaker Pelosi’s 2,032-page government takeover of health care does just that.  On line 17, p. 110, section 222 under “Abortions for which Public Funding is Allowed” the Health and Human Services Secretary is given the authority to determine when abortion is allowed under the government-run plan.  The Speaker’s plan also requires that at least one insurance plan offered in the Exchange covers abortions.

What is even more alarming is that a monthly abortion premium will be charged of all enrollees in the government-run plan.  It’s right there on line 16, page 96, section 213, under “Insurance Rating Rules.”  The premium will be paid into a U.S. Treasury account - and these federal funds will be used to pay for the abortion services.

Section 213 describes the process in which the Health Benefits Commissioner is to assess the monthly premiums that will be used to pay for elective abortions under the government-run plan.  The Commissioner must charge at a minimum $1 per enrollee per month.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:32pm
So the lies that Abortion isn't covered are exposed two days before the vote...
 
 
How can any democrat support behavior like this? They are not willing to debate this bill, or get any republican input... (except from frozen water rino's)
 
Nice "transparency"...
 
And I love the way the discussions were on cspan like Obama promised.
 
Hope for change!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:37pm
Without reading the thread all I am going to say is there is nothing wrong with abortion.

I have no problem with it being funded the same way as every other part of healthcare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:38pm
Good. I'd rather collectively pay $200 for an abortion now, than $200,000 plus over the next 18 years.

Abortions are legal, just as getting cancer surgery, amputation, or every other medical procedure covered by the bill are legal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

They are not willing to debate this bill, or get any republican input...


What input do the Republicans have other than to say no?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:44pm
Oh God, someone is going to let other people do things that FE doesn't agree with, yet don't affect him at all!

If I remember correctly, conservatives are supposed to believe in people not screwing with their lives.  I'm pretty sure imposing your ideas of what is right and wrong on others is exactly that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Oh God, someone is going to let other people do things that FE doesn't agree with, yet don't affect him at all!

If I remember correctly, conservatives are supposed to believe in people not screwing with their lives.  I'm pretty sure imposing your ideas of what is right and wrong on others is exactly that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by the bill the bill wrote:


SEC. 213. INSURANCE RATING RULES.

(a) In General- The premium rate charged for a qualified health benefits plan that is health insurance coverage may not vary except as follows:

    (1) LIMITED AGE VARIATION PERMITTED- By age (within such age categories as the Commissioner shall specify) so long as the ratio of the highest such premium to the lowest such premium does not exceed the ratio of 2 to 1.

    (2) BY AREA- By premium rating area (as permitted by State insurance regulators or, in the case of Exchange-participating health benefits plans, as specified by the Commissioner in consultation with such regulators).

    (3) BY FAMILY ENROLLMENT- By family enrollment (such as variations within categories and compositions of families) so long as the ratio of the premium for family enrollment (or enrollments) to the premium for individual enrollment is uniform, as specified under State law and consistent with rules of the Commissioner.

(b) Actuarial Value of Optional Service Coverage-

    (1) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall estimate the basic per enrollee, per month cost, determined on an average actuarial basis, for including coverage under a basic plan of the services described in section 222(d)(4)(A).

    (2) CONSIDERATIONS- In making such estimate the Commissioner--

      (A) may take into account the impact on overall costs of the inclusion of such coverage, but may not take into account any cost reduction estimated to result from such services, including prenatal care, delivery, or postnatal care;

      (B) shall estimate such costs as if such coverage were included for the entire population covered; and

      (C) may not estimate such a cost at less than $1 per enrollee, per month.

(c) Study and Reports-

(1) STUDY- The Commissioner, in coordination with the Secretary of Health and Human Services and the Secretary of Labor, shall conduct a study of the large-group-insured and self-insured employer health care markets. Such study shall examine the following:

(2) REPORTS- Not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Commissioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable agencies a report on the study conducted under paragraph (1). Such report shall include any recommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and midsize employers to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-insured employers. Not later than 18 months after the first day of Y1, the Commissioner shall submit to Congress and the applicable agencies an updated report on such study, including updates on such recommendations.


Here is the actual text of sec 213.  I see nothing about abortion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:51pm
I didn't dig too deeply into this, but does this bill (if enacted) repeal or end-run the Hyde Amendment?
 
(And, BTW - FE, as an Ohio resident, is already paying for abortions through his state taxes.  But seperate issue.)
 
EDIT - as well as federal taxes, obviously.  There was been some amount of federal funding for abortion since Roe v. Wade, as well as state funding.  The question is whether and how the limitations of the Hyde Amendment (rape, incest, life endangerment) apply under the new bill.


Edited by Peter Parker - 05 November 2009 at 1:11pm

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:52pm
No, It's in there, FE is correct in saying its in there. 

Originally posted by section 222 section 222 wrote:

7 (e) ABORTION COVERAGE PROHIBITED AS PART OF

8 MINIMUM BENEFITS PACKAGE.—

9 (1) PROHIBITION OF REQUIRED COVERAGE.—

10 The Health Benefits Advisory Committee may not

11 recommend under section 223(b), and the Secretary

12 may not adopt in standards under section 224(b),

13 the services described in paragraph (4)(A) or (4)(B)

14 as part of the essential benefits package and the

15 Commissioner may not require such services for

16 qualified health benefits plans to participate in the

17 Health Insurance Exchange.

18 (2) VOLUNTARY CHOICE OF COVERAGE BY

19 PLAN.—In the case of a qualified health benefits

20 plan, the plan is not required (or prohibited) under

21 this Act from providing coverage of services de22

scribed in paragraph (4)(A) or (4)(B) and the

23 QHBP offering entity shall determine whether such

24 coverage is provided.

VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:56 Oct 30, 2009 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00109 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3962.IH H3962 rmajette on DSK29S0YB1PROD with BILLS

110

HR 3962 IH

1 (3) COVERAGE UNDER PUBLIC HEALTH INSUR2

ANCE OPTION.—The public health insurance option

3 shall provide coverage for services described in para4

graph (4)(B). Nothing in this Act shall be construed

5 as preventing the public health insurance option

6 from providing for or prohibiting coverage of serv7

ices described in paragraph (4)(A).

8 (4) ABORTION SERVICES.—

9 (A) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUND10

ING IS PROHIBITED.—The services described in

11 this subparagraph are abortions for which the

12 expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for

13 the Department of Health and Human Services

14 is not permitted, based on the law as in effect

15 as of the date that is 6 months before the be16

ginning of the plan year involved.

17 (B) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC FUND18

ING IS ALLOWED.—The services described in

19 this subparagraph are abortions for which the

20 expenditure of Federal funds appropriated for

21 the Department of Health and Human Services

22 is permitted, based on the law as in effect as

23 of the date that is 6 months before the begin24

ning of the plan year involved.



Edited by __sneaky__ - 05 November 2009 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 12:58pm
Geez, first the government sets up a 60 day return policy on GM cars, and now they are doing it with babies.
/\ /\ \/ \/ < > < > B A START
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:00pm
Its crazy that I have a problem with the killing of babies... Wow, am I radical.
 
 
Before abortion, alive.
 
After abortion, dead.
 
No wonder I have a problem with paying for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Geez, first the government sets up a 60 day return policy on GM cars, and now they are doing it with babies.
 
I lol'ed.
 
Nice.

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:03pm

Holy crap, did you come to start a healthcare debate or an abortion debate?

Pick one

it's not that I have a problem with you making either, they are legit topics for debate, but make up your mind.



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 05 November 2009 at 1:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:04pm
A good portion of the rest of the world doesn't have a problem with it, why do you get to choose?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Holy crap, did you come to start a healthcare debate or an abortion debate?

Pick one

it's not that I have a problem with you making either, they are legit topics for debate, but make up your mind.

 
Read the title of the thread for that answer...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:11pm
I have a problem paying for death penalty executions, the war in Iraq, and roads I dont drive on.

Before execution - Alive.
After execution - Dead.

Or

Before illness with no healthcare - Alive
After illness with no healthcare - Dead

Sometimes you got to do something you dont like to help make the world go round.

Edited by Hades - 05 November 2009 at 1:18pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Holy crap, did you come to start a healthcare debate or an abortion debate?

Pick one

it's not that I have a problem with you making either, they are legit topics for debate, but make up your mind.

 
Read the title of the thread for that answer...

Then stick to the topic and don't go off on tangents.

Quote Sometimes you got to do something you dont like to help make the world go round.

Never understood why some people were so much against this.




Edited by carl_the_sniper - 05 November 2009 at 1:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Holy crap, did you come to start a healthcare debate or an abortion debate?

Pick one

it's not that I have a problem with you making either, they are legit topics for debate, but make up your mind.

 
Read the title of the thread for that answer...

Then stick to the topic and don't go off on tangents.



oh god, not again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2009 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Geez, first the government sets up a 60 day return policy on GM cars, and now they are doing it with babies.
LOL, win.
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