Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

You thought the Patriot Act sucked.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: You thought the Patriot Act sucked.
    Posted: 24 October 2009 at 1:47pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/world/europe/25surveillance.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

If the NYT is suggesting that someone's privacy is being violated, something's gotta be wrong.

Discuss.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
choopie911 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Commie Canuck

Joined: 01 June 2003
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 30745
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 3:37pm
Yeah, Britain is crazy. I was conscious of that when I was there, and how easily you could spot CC camera's.
I don't know if it's mentioned in the article but they are working on being able to isolate audio on the cameras so they could listen to individual conversations occuring in public.
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 5:00pm
I'm not even sure I'm comfortable with CCTV at traffic lights.

V for Vendetta upcoming, I'ma guess.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
MeanMan View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4134
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeanMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 5:38pm
If you aren't doing anything stupid, then......

hybrid-sniper~"To be honest, if I see a player still using an Impulse I'm going to question their motives."
Back to Top
TinMan View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10 October 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TinMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 5:43pm
Originally posted by MeanMan MeanMan wrote:

If you aren't doing anything stupid, then......
 
I was in Glasgow a few times and saw them everywhere. After the initial
curiosity I forgot about them.
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by MeanMan MeanMan wrote:

If you aren't doing anything stupid, then......


Only if enforcement directly changes behavior.  Which has been shown to be very dependent on the specific crime.  If you don't think this is a massive invasion of privacy, you are crazy.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
TinMan View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10 October 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TinMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

  If you don't think this is a massive invasion of privacy, you are crazy.
 
The video isn't being used on a game show, and I'm pretty sure there is not a person for each
camera, so the only time you should feel invaded is if the authorities need to review that footage
as part of an investigation. And even then your ok unless your the person of interest.

I guess it affects each person differently. Doesn't bother me.
Back to Top
Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
request denied

Joined: 27 October 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

  If you don't think this is a massive invasion of privacy, you are crazy.
 
The video isn't being used on a game show, and I'm pretty sure there is not a person for each
camera, so the only time you should feel invaded is if the authorities need to review that footage
as part of an investigation. And even then your ok unless your the person of interest.

I guess it affects each person differently. Doesn't bother me.


This.
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

  If you don't think this is a massive invasion of privacy, you are crazy.
 
The video isn't being used on a game show, and I'm pretty sure there is not a person for each
camera, so the only time you should feel invaded is if the authorities need to review that footage
as part of an investigation. And even then your ok unless your the person of interest.

I guess it affects each person differently. Doesn't bother me.


This.


Christ I wish it wasn't ROFL_MAO above me, but THIS
Que pasa?


Back to Top
__sneaky__ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Voted 2010 Most Improved Forumer

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: Uncertain
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:33pm
Siding with Pariells on this one.
Back to Top
Eville View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - 5/19, Filter-dodge

Joined: 19 September 2008
Status: Online
Points: 3146
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:43pm
I don't have a problem with giving up some of my privacy while in public if it means there is a better chance of catching the turd who pick pocketed me, or hit my car and drove off while I was in the store, etc.
Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

  If you don't think this is a massive invasion of privacy, you are crazy.
 
The video isn't being used on a game show, and I'm pretty sure there is not a person for each
camera, so the only time you should feel invaded is if the authorities need to review that footage
as part of an investigation. And even then your ok unless your the person of interest.

I guess it affects each person differently. Doesn't bother me.


This.


Christ I wish it wasn't ROFL_MAO above me, but THIS
 
Yeah, I have to say, even though my fellow conservatives would vomit in their cereal, it really doesn't bother me. As long as the cameras are on public streets, I don't see the privacy invasion?
 
Just like stop light cameras. People have been crying "OMG TEH PRIVACIES R BEING INVADED" for ages, and why? I got a stop light ticket from a red light camera, and really I'd much rather receive it in the mail than be given a traffic violation, not to mention I didn't have to deal with insurance going all to hell.
 
Not to mention they keep cops from tying themselves up with traffic violations.
 
I don't necessarily support surveilance society, but then again it doesn't really bother me.
Back to Top
__sneaky__ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Voted 2010 Most Improved Forumer

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: Uncertain
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I don't have a problem with giving up some of my privacy while in public if it means there is a better chance of catching the turd who pick pocketed me, or hit my car and drove off while I was in the store, etc.
"He who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin; Its a slippery slope.
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I don't have a problem with giving up some of my privacy while in public if it means there is a better chance of catching the turd who pick pocketed me, or hit my car and drove off while I was in the store, etc.
"He who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin; Its a slippery slope.


Freedom? I don't see how being videotaped in public is giving up freedom.
Que pasa?


Back to Top
TinMan View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 10 October 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TinMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

[ "He who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin; Its a slippery slope.
 
Unfortunately he said that in 1740 and probably hadn't been carjacked.
Back to Top
__sneaky__ View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Voted 2010 Most Improved Forumer

Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: Uncertain
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by TinMan TinMan wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

[ "He who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves neither." - Benjamin Franklin; Its a slippery slope.
 
Unfortunately he said that in 1740 and probably hadn't been carjacked.
Funny thing that revolutionary war. And the possibility of being hung for treason against the crown.
Back to Top
Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
request denied

Joined: 27 October 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:07pm
and he who sacrifices security for freedom looses the freedom anyways so its loose-loose scenario.
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I don't have a problem with giving up some of my privacy while in public if it means there is a better chance of catching the turd who pick pocketed me, or hit my car and drove off while I was in the store, etc.


I could generally agree with that.

But the fact that the school district, not a law enforcement agency, is given the power to have investigators follow me around is certainly an invasion of privacy.  It would be a different story if it was a crime, and they shouldn't be treating people who don't recycle the same way they treat pickpockets, for that matter.

It is worth it to give up some privacy in public (and legitimately, what privacy do you have in public anyway?) to establish a safer community.  It is not safe, or beneficial to the community to put spies in their midst and create a sense of fear towards the government and each other, especially not when the target is people committing insignificant crimes.  Not that these shouldn't be dealt with, but that they should be dealt with in a more reasonable and direct manner.

*EDIT* Also, founding father quotes are somewhat cliche.  Not a brilliant example of critical thought.


Edited by ParielIsBack - 24 October 2009 at 10:14pm
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I don't have a problem with giving up some of my privacy while in public if it means there is a better chance of catching the turd who pick pocketed me, or hit my car and drove off while I was in the store, etc.




But the fact that the school district, not a law enforcement agency, is given the power to have investigators follow me around is certainly an invasion of privacy.  It would be a different story if it was a crime, and they shouldn't be treating people who don't recycle the same way they treat pickpockets, for that matter.

It is worth it to give up some privacy in public (and legitimately, what privacy do you have in public anyway?) to establish a safer community.  It is not safe, or beneficial to the community to put spies in their midst and create a sense of fear towards the government and each other, especially not when the target is people committing insignificant crimes.  Not that these shouldn't be dealt with, but that they should be dealt with in a more reasonable and direct manner.

 
I don't really see where a spy was in the midst, they asked a cop to follow the lady home and find out if it was her correct address.
 
I agree that it's excessive, but the fact is if you're breaking the law you are under penalty thereof. All of the cases mentioned, illegal trash dumping, not wiping fido's arse, they're all legitimate, albeit relatively inconsequential, violations of law. And they're all being committed on city streets / time, and it's the cities right to find out.
 
The problem here isn't necessarily the surveilance, but the future that it's a precursor to. How long is it until these "surveillance" operations are given access to your home?
 
Oops, Patriot Act. I haz forgets.
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2009 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by NYT NYT wrote:

officer from the Poole education department secretly followed her


That's what worries me.

We should, and mostly do, have systems to watch cops because we understand they have great authority and can abuse it.

I don't know exactly what an "education department officer" is, but at least in the US, they would not be under that eye.

The city as a whole should not be, and is not in the US, given the ability to use cameras.  The police can use them, again going back to what I said about watchdogs.  Certainly it brings up the specter of larger privacy transgressions, but even what the school district did in this case shouldn't be allowed in the US.  I'm less sure about things like traffic cameras and people who can't clean up after themselves or their animals.

*EDIT* And the FBI probably has my phone tapped.  They're listening to me order Chinese food.


Edited by ParielIsBack - 24 October 2009 at 10:40pm
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.