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Traditional Americans are losing their nation...

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    Posted: 20 October 2009 at 10:25am
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=113463
 
 
Great article, that points out why more and more traditional American like myself are starting to stand up and speak out.
 
copy pasted.
 

In the brief age of Obama, we have had "truthers," "birthers," tea party activists and town-hall dissenters.

Comes now, the "Oath Keepers." And who might they be?

Writes Alan Maimon in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, Oath Keepers, depending on where one stands, are "either strident defenders of liberty or dangerous peddlers of paranoia."

Formed in March, they are ex-military and police who repledge themselves to defend the Constitution, even if it means disobeying orders. If the U.S. government ordered law enforcement agencies to violate Second Amendment rights by disarming the people, Oath Keepers will not obey.

"The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here," says founding father Stewart Rhodes, an ex-Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer. "My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can't do it without them.

"We say if the American people decide it's time for a revolution, we'll fight with you."

Prediction: Brother Rhodes is headed for cable stardom.

And if the Pelosi-Reid progressives went postal over town-hall protesters, calling them "un-American," "Nazis" and "evil-mongers," one can imagine what they will do with the Oath Keepers.

As with Jimmy Carter's long-range psychoanalysis of Joe Wilson, the reflexive reaction of the mainstream media will likely be that these are militia types, driven to irrationality because America has a black president.

Yet, the establishment's reaction seems more problematic for the republic than anything the Oath Keepers are up to. For our political and media elite seem to have lost touch with the nation and to be wedded to a vision of America divorced from reality.

Progressives are the folks who, in the 1960s, could easily understand that urban riots that took scores of lives and destroyed billions in property were an inevitable reaction to racism, poverty and despair. They could empathize with the rage of campus radicals who burned down the ROTC building and bombed the Pentagon.

The "dirty, immoral war in Vietnam" explains why the "finest generation we have ever produced" is behaving like this, they said. We must deal with the "root causes" of social disorder.

Yet, they cannot comprehend what would motivate Middle America to distrust its government, for it surely does, as Ron Brownstein reports in the National Journal:

"Whites are not only more anxious, but also more alienated. Big majorities of whites say the past year's turmoil has diminished their confidence in government, corporations and the financial industry. ... Asked which institution they trust most to make economic decisions in their interest, a plurality of whites older than 30 pick 'none' a grim statement."

Is all this due to Obama's race?

Even Obama laughs at that. As he told David Letterman, I was already black by the time I was elected. And he not only got a higher share of the white vote than Kerry or Gore, a third of white voters, who said in August 2008 that race was an important consideration in voting, said they were going to vote for Obama.

With black voters going 24 to 1 for Obama, he almost surely won more votes than he lost because of his race.

Moreover, the alienation and radicalization of white America began long before Obama arrived. He acknowledged as much when he explained Middle Pennsylvanians to puzzled progressives in that closed-door meeting in San Francisco.

Referring to the white working-class voters in the industrial towns decimated by job losses, Obama said: "They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Yet, we had seen these folks before. They were Perotistas in 1992, opposed NAFTA in 1993 and blocked the Bush-Kennedy McCain amnesty in 2007.

In their lifetimes, they have seen their Christian faith purged from schools their taxes paid for, and mocked in movies and on TV. They have seen their factories shuttered in the thousands and their jobs outsourced in the millions to Mexico and China. They have seen trillions of tax dollars go for Great Society programs, but have seen no Great Society, only rising crime, illegitimacy, drug use and dropout rates.

They watch on cable TV as illegal aliens walk into their country, are rewarded with free educations and health care and take jobs at lower pay than American families can live on then carry Mexican flags in American cities and demand U.S. citizenship.

They see Wall Street banks bailed out as they sweat their next paycheck, then read that bank profits are soaring, and the big bonuses for the brilliant bankers are back. Neither they nor their kids ever benefited from affirmative action, unlike Barack and Michelle Obama.

They see a government in Washington that cannot balance its books, win our wars or protect our borders. The government shovels out trillions to Fortune 500 corporations and banks to rescue the country from a crisis created by the government and Fortune 500 corporations and banks.

America was once their country. They sense they are losing it. And they are right.

They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 10:34am
I'm pretty sure "traditional Americans"lost their country when we made them live in reserves in Oklahoma.
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 10:44am
 
If anyone could give advice on immigration control, they can.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 10:49am
I'll hop in before the usual suspects jump in with dick jokes and lewd photoshops of Ann Coulter.



Regardless of one's political views on a given subject, it is essentially inarguable that there is a growing schism between sections of American society. Looking in from outside it almost seems that there is a political balkanization of the U.S. underway along left wing/right wing fault lines. I've been following American political and social trends for years, and only once have I ever seen rhetoric this heated, that being right after 9/11. The same sort of collective rage is slowly being turned inwards. Americans are not reacting to politcal events with reasoned introspection, but with reactionary partisanship. 'Conservative' or 'Liberal' have both become slurs, coming from one of differing political views It's the same sort of depersonalization of 'the other' as we are so used to seeing in ethnic and tribal conflicts. A lot of radicals on the right genuinely believe liberals hate America and wish it ill. A lot of radical liberals seem to think that conservatives are a homogeneous group of gun toting rednecks who are mere weeks away from armed insurrection. All of this is crap, but the perception that it may be true can be nearly as dangerous as it actually being so. Right now it's concerning; should this continue for a few more years it's going to be downright frightening being your neighbour.

I think America and Americans need to pull their collective heads out, draw a deep breath of fresh air, and start cautiously shaking hands with each other again and try to engage in a political process that rewards cooperation instead of partisanship. There's nothing wrong with thinking the other party is incorrect, but when hatred or disgust of another's politics turns into simple hatred and disgust for another, you've become too heavily emotionally invested in the issue. Such emotion clouds reason, which is the only unviersal tool for getting out of a mess.

Americans still live in one of the best countries in the world by almost any measure. I wish more Americans would travel outside their own borders to less fortunate parts of the world so they could realize that. America is flawed and has problems, but they are all minor and fixable. Even America's working poor enjoy much greater material wealth than most of the population of the earth. Many Ameircans go to sleep hungry, but few genuinely starve. Nearly all get a pretty decent education.

The 'American Way' is changing; that;'s simply what happens to nations over the course of decades. America is not on the same track it once was. In fairly short order it will begin to be eclipsed by other major economic powers, and America may well find itself 'merely' an equal player amongst the most powerful nations in the world, instead of the hegemonic power it's been for sixty years. There's nothing really wrong with that, it's just the ebb and tide of nations.

America used to be pretty damned good at taking lemons and making lemonade. I think the loss of that spirit is one of the greatest tragedies America has undergone- and I'm not really sure when it happened...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 11:12am
Bri's nailed it on the head. And I hate to say it, but the Republican party isn't the party of Reagan anymore. The roles have started to change. The 'new' Republican party has become the southern democratic party and the Democratic party is starting to slowly move away from the left-wing liberalists like Pelosi and Reid to a much more centrist position within the political spectrum. I think that the Dem party heads realize that the polarization of politics is leaving the majority of the nation sitting in the middle wondering when a party will come along that they can actually stand behind. Someone is going to fill that void shortly, and the Dems want to be the ones standing there ready to accept all those votes with open arms.

The time is ripe for someone with a moderate stance and no b.s. way of doing things to step in and create a new party (a la the Bull Moose party) which will then rapidly gain power and influence bringing the nation back to equilibrium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 11:14am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Bri's nailed it on the head. And I hate to say it, but the Republican party isn't the party of Reagan anymore. The roles have started to change. The 'new' Republican party has become the southern democratic party and the Democratic party is starting to slowly move away from the left-wing liberalists like Pelosi and Reid to a much more centrist position within the political spectrum. I think that the Dem party heads realize that the polarization of politics is leaving the majority of the nation sitting in the middle wondering when a party will come along that they can actually stand behind. Someone is going to fill that void shortly, and the Dems want to be the ones standing there ready to accept all those votes with open arms.

The time is ripe for someone with a moderate stance and no b.s. way of doing things to step in and create a new party (a la the Bull Moose party) which will then rapidly gain power and influence bringing the nation back to equilibrium.

Funny enough I was thinking that just the other day. A truly centrist party in American politics- if it could keep itself most above the mud slinging - could potentially do reasonably well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 11:29am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

...

America used to be pretty damned good at taking lemons and making lemonade. I think the loss of that spirit is one of the greatest tragedies America has undergone- and I'm not really sure when it happened...


That pretty much sums up my thoughts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 11:47am
I have a hard time taking seriously anyone who thinks America is heading towards a dictatorship.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

I have a hard time taking seriously anyone who thinks America is heading towards a dictatorship.  
This.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:21pm
The real interesting part is to move from one predominant mid-western college town (Lincoln,NE) with left leanings, to a upstate New York college town (Oneonta,NY) and sit back and understant the differances. Your typical mid-west Left leaning individual is far less dependant on the "system" and demands fewer social benifits. Where in New York many are conditioned or second generation benifit reciepiants demanding more assistance, and if denied immediately run to a lawyer.

Watched an arguement in a Pizzaria who's owner rents student apartments, said student was "upset" that there were no studios left, and actually threatened to go to a lawyer because the owner was discriminating against him. I know the owner/landlord and most of his semester renters are actually in the socially defined "minority", but this dewb believed he was more special than the other renters, and the fact that no more studio's were left did not matter, only his drive to sue for something.

I come from a differant generation and era, I am not entitled to anything I did not work for. My disability based on my service warrents my benifits, and I am more frustrated that I can not work. Where I see a group within this nation actually working the "dependancy" angle, and a government more worried on this new dependant class than those who work. Yes industry has moved out partly based on tax policies of a government actually wanting more dependance on them.

More here are jumping up and down that marijuana may be legalized than worried about other social ill's befalling thier nation. None have probably read "Liberty and Tyranny" by Mark Levin, or even "Argueing with Idiots" by Glenn Beck, each filled with quotations and actions verified by citation of many of the social ills of the nation. Each is a commentator on American society, and thier media representation is based solely of the left bashing them, instead of trying to refute the information in the books.

Yes, military and law-enforcement types are becoming fed up with all the chaos that the current administration is force feeding the American nation. Chicago styled voter buying, no Social Security COLA but "Obama" is going to give each SSAN reciepiant a $250.00 one time payment, and now for the blind youth vote, "Obama" is starting the process to legalize marijuana. Your vote is being "bought" Chicago style. And no one cares. The White House "officially" states it "controls" the media (we have that posted already) and has a defined strategy to discredit thier "opposition" FOX. The current medical insurance debacal where even congress can not tell you what is in the bill they are ramming down your throat. (Actually cheaper to pay the tax fine than buy the mandatory insurance as the plan is written to date)

So yes there is a faction in America that does not like this drift further left, and it is not all Conservative "rednecks" many in California, New York, Michigan are tired of the give aways at the cost of the real workers in the nation. Notice that the states with the most fiscal difficulties are the more lefty states. Michigan is a classic, keep raising taxes, drive more bussiness and work out of the state, lower the taxable base to support the growing dependant class, and actually believes that raising taxes again will "solve" the problem. The mass exodus to Ohio and Indiana is proof it won't work. And the Bloomberg(RINO) tax policies in NYC, where the "rich" have fled to Conneticut and even New Jersey for lower taxes.

I am a gun totin 2nd Amendment supporter, believe in the 1st Amendment protected by the 2nd Amendment, and also believe in what the founders invisioned for the nation, not this "fluid" Constitution the Left is trying to force upon us. A comma does not change the intent of an Amendment, it was the language of the time.
I am looking at this group, and may actually join, to each his own, and I will stand up to this attack on America from within, for I too took the oath to protect the nation from enemise both foriegn and DOMESTIC.

BTW in 1933 no one who voted for Hitler believed thier nation would turn into a Dictatorship either, they also voted for "hope and change" as he promised. Incrimental steps, erosion of simple rights leading to dependance on the Reich for all. Control the press, tell the people what they want to hear, and then do what you are needing to do to further the cause. Drum up a comman enemy "Jews"(in our case Conservatives) to blame all the nations problems on, and revise the history and the needs to fit the cause.

Edited by oldsoldier - 20 October 2009 at 12:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:23pm
Here's another thought:

This nation doesn't belong to "traditional Americans." America in the time of their childhood was "radical leftist new America" for the "traditional Americans" of their day.

The point is, change from the past is not only inevitable, it's also not exactly a bad thing. The nation's culture has no obligation to remain the way it has been because a segment of society thinks it should be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:29pm
Nor should it change because a minority believes it should, it is a true balancing act. The belief that the current administration is turning more "centrist" is false, a concept put upon the masses by the media, where the actions of the administration demonstrate differant. Where is this "transparency", answer: behind closed doors writing the legislation to force upon you.

Edited by oldsoldier - 20 October 2009 at 12:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


The time is ripe for someone with a moderate stance and no b.s. way of doing things to step in and create a new party (a la the Bull Moose party) which will then rapidly gain power and influence bringing the nation back to equilibrium.


The only problem is that something like a true centrist party only works in politically perfect theoretical world.

They are nearly impossible to establish, simply because there are very few true centrists. That's why the party you use as demonstration, the Bull Moose, had hardly the steam to last more than one election. All it managed to do is split an existing party vote, and it ended up being nothing more than a normal third party.

What we need, more-so than a theoretically perfect center party, is for both the Republican and Democratic parties to stay near the middle and cease the outward trends. That will accomplish tons and tons more than a centrist party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The belief that the current administration is turning more "centrist" is false.


The large majority of political scientists who study this kind of thing for a living beg to differ.

The Obama administration, much like the past presidencies except for Bush, from Clinton back to Bush I, and even Reagan, has shifted more to the center once being in office about one year.

These kinds of things are tangible. It isn't a "Well it looks/feels/seems like Obama is moving left," type of thing. Scientists and historians track and record this stuff.
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The belief that the current administration is turning more "centrist" is false.


The large majority of political scientists who study this kind of thing for a living beg to differ.

The Obama administration, much like the past presidencies except for Bush, from Clinton back to Bush I, and even Reagan, has shifted more to the center once being in office about one year.

These kinds of things are tangible. It isn't a "Well it looks/feels/seems like Obama is moving left," type of thing. Scientists and historians track and record this stuff.
Please stop making huge generalizations that aren't backed up with sources.
 
I wonder if your "political" scientists work with the same "economists" that the Obama administration refers to a "majority" of economists say the stimulus is working, and unemployment won't go past 8%...
 
And it would "save" or create millions of jobs...
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The eMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:49pm
I sort of wish you would just shut up already
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:50pm
The definition of centrist has never been truely stated by these so-called "political scientists". So any movement conforming to a percieved comman belief can be seen as moving to the center. Obama was forced to move, his campaign promises once he got in office were unattainable, so any move was seen as "centrist", where in fact he is end arounding a lot of issues to not make a centrist decesion on them. The Afghan issue, not talking to the military for months on end in order to avoid angering his base with the decesion he knows must be done. Avoiding talking to the Conservative media to avoid the hard fast balls, where he can sit back with his "friendly" media and continue to hit "softball" questions is not a "centerist" stance, only the "parrot" media calls it moving to the center.

My Poly Sci prof states that he is moving further left to appease his voter base, he tried moving center and his internal approval numbers dropped, so he took the required left turn, hoping to regain the voter approval.

Edited by oldsoldier - 20 October 2009 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The belief that the current administration is turning more "centrist" is false.


The large majority of political scientists who study this kind of thing for a living beg to differ.

The Obama administration, much like the past presidencies except for Bush, from Clinton back to Bush I, and even Reagan, has shifted more to the center once being in office about one year.

These kinds of things are tangible. It isn't a "Well it looks/feels/seems like Obama is moving left," type of thing. Scientists and historians track and record this stuff.
Please stop making huge generalizations that aren't backed up with sources.
 
I wonder if your "political" scientists work with the same "economists" that the Obama administration refers to a "majority" of economists say the stimulus is working, and unemployment won't go past 8%...
 
And it would "save" or create millions of jobs...
 
 
Beautiful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The belief that the current administration is turning more "centrist" is false.


The large majority of political scientists who study this kind of thing for a living beg to differ.

The Obama administration, much like the past presidencies except for Bush, from Clinton back to Bush I, and even Reagan, has shifted more to the center once being in office about one year.

These kinds of things are tangible. It isn't a "Well it looks/feels/seems like Obama is moving left," type of thing. Scientists and historians track and record this stuff.
Please stop making huge generalizations that aren't backed up with sources.
 
I wonder if your "political" scientists work with the same "economists" that the Obama administration refers to a "majority" of economists say the stimulus is working, and unemployment won't go past 8%...
 
And it would "save" or create millions of jobs...
 
 
Beautiful.
I've posted these sources before. But, just for your benefit. Here are more examples
 
 
economists under Obama touting its (as biden put it) "stimulus is working, better than we imagined".
 
which many who actually work in this economy see as a complete fabrication.
 
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2009 at 1:21pm
I could post links like this:

Link

Link

Link

But they are just going to be ignored and passed off as the "parrot media."


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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