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Global cooling... Better hurry N Pass Cap N TAX...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:21pm

A big "told ya so" is in order...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1
 
 

Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.

They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

A big "told ya so" is in order...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1
 
 

Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.



And moon landing skeptics say everything shows that the landings were staged. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:43pm
Yeah, again, vastly overstating the importance of this find.

This is what normal academia is like, there's not some plot to pull the blanket over our collective eyes.  The scientific data doesn't stop existing because some people worried about how to publish it.
BU Engineering 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

A big "told ya so" is in order...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1
 
 

Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.



And moon landing skeptics say everything shows that the landings were staged. 
Win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:47pm
Holy cow... I just read a few of these emails...
 
Talk about a smoking gun.
 
Here is the link to them if you missed it.
 
 
 
 
Look at this email.
 
 
 
yeah, someone wrote something that makes them look bad, so what do they do?...
 
"Dear folks,

You may be interesting in this snippet of information about
Pat Michaels. Perhaps the University of Wisconsin ought to
open up a public comment period to decide whether Pat Michaels,
PhD needs re-assessing?"
 
 
yup, they want to pull his PhD! All because they disagree with his science. That children is called hardball, in most industries that is also called being blacklisted!
 
Nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Grimm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

A big "told ya so" is in order...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1
 
 
 
I am surprised it took you so long to post this...
 
But I will wait until we see some more of these emails.  The ones that have been trotted out so far aren't particularly impressive.
 


Edited by Ben Grimm - 23 November 2009 at 1:48pm
It's Clobberin' Time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Ben Grimm Ben Grimm wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

A big "told ya so" is in order...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html?_r=1
 
 
 
I am surprised it took you so long to post this...
 
But I will wait until we see some more of these emails.  The ones that have been trotted out so far aren't particularly impressive.
 
 
 
I waited to see if one of you guys would post about it...
 
I got tired of waiting.
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:13pm
And then last night i had that strange dream
Where everything was exactly how it seemed
Where concerns about the world getting warmer
The people thought they were just being rewarded
For treating others as they like to be treated
For obeying stop signs and curing diseases
For mailing letters with the address of the sender
Now we can swim any day in november
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:20pm
Here is a funny one...
 
 
Gotta make the data say what you "need" it to say...
 
 
 
"The hourly data from the Weather

Generator have discontinuities at each

midnight join. The e.g. temperature

jumps, may be as high as 9�C. "
 
 
 
 
and more...
 
"Could the Weather Generator be altered

to produce more realistic hourly data

by fitting from Tmax to Tmin the

following day, please?"
 
 
 
Heh, heh, heh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Grimm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:23pm
I'm missing why you think those emails are exciting...?
 
 
EDIT - ah, those are the beginning and the end of the same single email.  Reading the entire email I am even less certain why you are excited about this email.  Seems pretty obviously a suggestion for tweaking a weather simulator to make it behave more like actual weather.
 


Edited by Ben Grimm - 23 November 2009 at 2:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:23pm
NOW WE CAN SWIM ANY DAY IN NOVEMBER
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:25pm
People who think seasonal trends = global climate change = idiots.

Pretty simple math really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:38pm
The entire idea that "science" is fixing numbers to make them say what they want is the issue...
 
 
Want a smoking gun?
 
 
Here you go... I just found a juicy one.
 
 
"Dear Dr. Wang,
> Regarding the Chinese meteorological data analyzed by Wang et al.
> [GRL, 1990] and Jones et al. [Nature, 1990], it now seems clear that
> there are severe problems. In particular, the data was obtained from
> 84 meteorological stations that can be classified as follows.
> 49 have no histories 08 have inconsistent histories 18 have
> substantial relocations 02 have single-year relocations 07 have
> no relocations Furthermore, some of the relocations are very
> distant--over 20 km.
> Others are to greatly different environments, as illustrated here:
> http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1323#comment-102970
>
> The above contradicts the published claim to have considered the
> histories of the stations, especially for the 49 stations that have no
> histories. Yet the claim is crucial for the research conclusions.
>
> I e-mailed you about this on April 11th. I also phoned you on April
> 13th: you said that you were in a meeting and would get back to me. I
> have received no response.
>
> I ask you to retract your GRL paper, in full, and to retract the
> claims made in Nature about the Chinese data. If you do not do so, I
> intend to publicly submit an allegation of research misconduct to your
> university at Albany.
>
>
> Douglas J. Keenan
> http://www.informath.org
> phone + 44 20 7537 4122
> The Limehouse Cut, London E14 6N, UK"
 
 
 
In the first reply...
 
"GHCN and NCAR don't have source codes either. It does
> all come from the NMSs - well mostly, but some from
> scientists."
 
 
 
Oh, so the NMSs makes up data that fits the global warming thoughts... Interesting. At least SOME is from scientists...

 
 
and finally the main part.
 
 
"Hi Phil,

This is all too predictable. This crowd of charlatans is always looking
for one thing they can harp on, where people w/ little knowledge of the
facts might be able to be convinced that there is a controversy. They
can't take on the whole of the science, so they look for one little
thing they can say is wrong, and thus generalize that the science is
entirely compromised. Of course, as nicely shown in the SPM, every
landmass is independently warming, and much as the models predict. So
they can harp all they want on one Chinese data set, it couldn't
possibly change the big picture (let alone even the trends for China). The

So they are simply hoping to blow this up to something that looks like a
legitimate controversy. The last thing you want to do is help them by
feeding the fire. Best thing is to ignore them completely. They no
longer have their friends in power here in the U.S., and the media has become entirely unsympathetic to the rants of the contrarians at least in the U.S.
--the Wall Street Journal editorial page are about the only
place they can broadcast their disinformation. So in other words, for
contrarians the environment appears to have become very unfavorable for
development.
I would advise Wang the same way. Keenan may or may not be
bluffing, but if he tries this I believe that British law would make it
easy for Wang to win a defamation suit against him (the burden is much
tougher in the states),

mike"
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:41pm
Oh really? Juicy you say?

" In particular, the data was obtained from
> 84 meteorological stations that can be classified as follows.
> 49 have no histories 08 have inconsistent histories 18 have
> substantial relocations 02 have single-year relocations 07 have
> no relocations Furthermore, some of the relocations are very
> distant--over 20 km."


That was at the top of the email..
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:48pm

jmac, you are so cute...

It doesn't say what you think it says...
 
 
 
 
Look at what else they said about this, looks like these guys take a page from the playbook here too!
 
 
"Hi Phil
I am sure you know that this is not about the science. It is an attack to
undermine the science in some way. In that regard I don't think you can
ignore it all,
as Mike suggests as one option, but the response should try
to somehow label these guys and lazy and incompetent and unable to do the
huge amount of work it takes to construct such a database
. Indeed
technology and data handling capabilities have evolved and not everything
was saved.
So my feeble suggestion is to indeed cast aspersions on their
motives and throw in some counter rhetoric
. Labeling them as lazy with
nothng better to do seems like a good thing to do.

How about "I tried to get some data from McIntyre from his 1990 paper, but
I was unable because he doesn't have such a paper because he has not done
any constructive work!"

There is no basis for retracting a paper given in Keenan's message. One
may have to offer a correction that a particular sentence was not correct
if it claimed something that indeed was not so.
But some old instrumental
data are like paleo data, and can only be used with caution as the
metadata do not exist. It doesn't mean they are worthless and can not be
used. Offering to make a correction to a few words in a paper in a
trivial manner will undermine his case.

Kevin"
 
 
 
 
 
 
It is pretty obvious that numbers have been "massaged" to get people to buy into the hype...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:53pm
Without posting some stupid quote with ridiculous bolding, tell me how that "does not say what I think it says"

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Oh really? Juicy you say?

" In particular, the data was obtained from
> 84 meteorological stations that can be classified as follows.
> 49 have no histories 08 have inconsistent histories 18 have
> substantial relocations 02 have single-year relocations 07 have
> no relocations Furthermore, some of the relocations are very
> distant--over 20 km."


That was at the top of the email..
 
 
The paper, that is often used to cite how global warming is man made... Had data that was supposed to be from locations that were factual.
 
The part that you quoted was proving they are not factual, but made up in many cases.
 
Hence...
 
49 have no histories
 
 
In laymans terms, THEY DON'T EXIST!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 3:02pm
Except the part you originally bolded.

Are you mentally retarded? Are they making up numbers or not allowing papers to be published? Which is it?

First you post that email saying someone is trying to repress the information or some nonsense. I quote why it wanted to be retracted FROM THE SAME EMAIL, and now you are telling me that just proves they are making up numbers. Even though the email is telling them to retract the paper.

Here I will help you out.

Beginning of email:

n particular, the data was obtained from
> 84 meteorological stations that can be classified as follows.
> 49 have no histories 08 have inconsistent histories 18 have
> substantial relocations 02 have single-year relocations 07 have
> no relocations Furthermore, some of the relocations are very
> distant--over 20 km.

End of email.
> I ask you to retract your GRL paper, in full, and to retract the
> claims made in Nature about the Chinese data. If you do not do so, I
> intend to publicly submit an allegation of research misconduct to your
> university at Albany.

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 3:04pm
AND STOP CHANGING SIZES OF YOUR DUMBASS TYPING IT IS ANNOYING AS HELL.

IT DOESN'T HELP YOUR CASE AT ALL, WE CAN READ
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2009 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

WE CAN READ
 
 
 
Comprehension... Now that is a different story...
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