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We ought to ban hunting...

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procarbinefreak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:35am
Put up scarecrows... but for deer.

Scaredeer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 9:09am
You know what's funny, all I ever hear from anti-hunting people is that hunting is useless, therefore should be illegal. Not saying anyone on this thread has stated that per se, but i hear it quite a bit.
 
So my challenge, to any anti-hunting people here, is give me a reason it should not be legal. Otherwise, i don't see the point in these arguments.
 
And for the record, I actually agree that hunting has little use. I don't think saying that hunting is necessary in a pro hunting argument is any better than saying OMG I NEED MY GUN TO DEFEND MYSELF in a pro-gun argument.  Hunting is a recreation, and nothing more, in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 9:30am
Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

Put up scarecrows... but for deer.

Scaredeer.
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

 
And for the record, I actually agree that hunting has little use. I don't think saying that hunting is necessary in a pro hunting argument is any better than saying OMG I NEED MY GUN TO DEFEND MYSELF in a pro-gun argument.  Hunting is a recreation, and nothing more, in my opinion.


Exactly.

Just noone can admit it. You fools don't hunt because you're controlling a population, you do because you want to.

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

We KILL them so they don't get in our way and possibly hurt us.

SOUNDS LOGICAL


Just out of curiosity, what is your alternative solution to preventing the urban encroachment, starvation and disease issues that result from deer overpopulation?


Natural Selection.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I'll just leave this here.
http://www.venisondonation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1



     "Since 1999, the Venison Donation Coalition has been highly successful in its goal to feed the hungry throughout New York State. They have processed 337.51 tons of highly nutritious venison or the equivalent of 2,700,800 meals served. In order for this program to continue and flourish, the Venison Donation Coalition is seeking financial donations."

Yeah, hunting is useless alright....that's 2.7 million meals that wouldn't have been had by people who needed them.




Could be done without hunting.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 1:41pm

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

] Natural Selection.
Soooo, they are going to die either way... Not to mention the fact that it helps prevent auto accidents. Why exactly are you against hunting jmac? If you ran into a dear going 60mph in your car (which happens ALOT in this area) would you really still be singing that same tune?

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Could be done without hunting.
Oh well of course, who doesn't have 337.51 tons of meat sitting in their garage.

Traveling to mars without rockets, is physically possible, its just a pretty stupid thing to do. Sure would save that poor rocket fuel from getting burnt up tho, poor babies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

] Natural Selection.
Soooo, they are going to die either way... Not to mention the fact that it helps prevent auto accidents. Why exactly are you against hunting jmac? If you ran into a dear going 60mph in your car (which happens ALOT in this area) would you really still be singing that same tune?


Who said I was against hunting?

Yes I would be singing the same tune.

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Could be done without hunting.
Oh well of course, who doesn't have 337.51 tons of meat sitting in their garage.


The same people that hunt. Could donate food or money to shelters. Instead of buying guns, bullets, gas to somewhere to hunt, freezers to freeze it, knives to cut it.

Traveling to mars without rockets, is physically possible, its just a pretty stupid thing to do. Sure would save that poor rocket fuel from getting burnt up tho, poor babies.

Rocket Fuel isn't an animal.




Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I'll just leave this here.
http://www.venisondonation.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1



     "Since 1999, the Venison Donation Coalition has been highly successful in its goal to feed the hungry throughout New York State. They have processed 337.51 tons of highly nutritious venison or the equivalent of 2,700,800 meals served. In order for this program to continue and flourish, the Venison Donation Coalition is seeking financial donations."

Yeah, hunting is useless alright....that's 2.7 million meals that wouldn't have been had by people who needed them.




Could be done without hunting.
 
Now you're just being silly.
 
How exactly? By having farmers donate beef instead of selling it? By paying farmers to domestically raise deer?
 
Both possible I suppose, but are really expensive and therefore ludicrous to consider.
 
 Hunting on the other hand, not only gets the meat on the table without COSTING the state anything, it actually brings IN money. License sales in NY have jumped through the roof this year, but I don't know anyone who always has hunted that is going to refrain from it this year because of the added cost. So Joe Smith pays his $80 for a sportsman's license, wanders out and shoots a deer, then donates the meat to a collection center.
 
The state pays nothing. They MAKE money. In fact, the only person here who spends anything at all is the guy who buys the license and the ammunition in the first place. Seems to me that providing revenue to the state is another 'use' for hunting......but since thats not WHY people hunt, it doesn't count and the instituion is still useless right?
 
jmac, to me it seems like you're manufacturing brand new definitions of the word "useless" in order to justify a pretty silly point.
 
As far as your comment that we hunt because we want to, not because we're going out there to thin out the population: On one hand you are correct. I hunt because I want to and because I like to, but because I do, (If I'm lucky) there's a chance that I could stem the tide of a rapidly growing animal population. Especially considering that in many states, there has been a huge wipe out of natural predators for deer. Wolves were nearly killed off by farmers and bounty hunters, and with the exceptions of a few packs of coyotes, the deer population {you're ignoring all this aren't you?} has only human intervention and mass starvation as its options in many places.
 
On the other hand, you're completely wrong. In places like natural parks all over the country, rangers go out expressely to hunt and kill deer for the single purpose of controlling the population of the animals.
 
Oh and would you look at that.....the venison is being donated. You say useless, I ask you if you're trying to convince me, or convince yourself.
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:31pm
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Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Could be done without hunting.
Quote Oh well of course, who doesn't have 337.51 tons of meat sitting in their garage.

The same people that hunt. Could donate food or money to shelters. Instead of buying guns, bullets, gas to somewhere to hunt, freezers to freeze it, knives to cut it.

 
Two years ago, my brother shot a doe locally that yielded 90 pounds of meat. Have you got any idea what 90 pounds of meat would cost to purchase and donate?
 
Consider this: With his being in the military, he got his license for $15. He hunted locally, which means walking out the back door and into the woods. No gas spent. He used a single shot, which lets ludicrously say cost him a dollar. We had a friend process and cut it, so that cost nothing but a few steaks. The grand total of the cost of his hunt: No more than $20. For 90 pounds of meat.
 
Instead, you're asking that he give up hunting, PURCHASE meat, and donate that? You can't get a decent steak meal for $20 and he got enough that we were eating venison for quite some time, rather than buying beef at whatever the cost of that was at the time.
 
 


Edited by Reb Cpl - 01 October 2009 at 2:32pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:32pm
No I am not manufacturing definitions.

You say all this stuff. Again that is not why people hunt. They donate meat because they can't use it all themselves. There are many ways to donate that don't involve hunting. Yes it is a nice side affect. Could the job get done without the hunting? Yes, if people were more apt to give than kill things.

Again, if deers overpopulate and starve that is their problem.

Do we hunt other animals for overpopulating and starving? No we wouldn't. We hunt deer because people like to shoot and eat them.

If hunting went away all the same effects could happen. That is why hunting is useless

Guys could buy food to donate. This would bring money into an industry. This would bring money to the state in the form of sales tax. Places would get donations without paying for them.


Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:37pm
This is the dumbest argument I've read on here in a while, not gonna lie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:



If hunting went away all the same effects could happen. That is why hunting is useless


 
I think the huge problem in this thread is that I'm not sure we all understand what you're shooting for here.
 
Are you arguing that hunting should be illegal, or just arguing against everyone saying how useful it is?
 
Because I was under the impression that you were advocating that hunting should be illegal, but reading back I'm not exactly sure at this point what we're all arguing about...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

No I am not manufacturing definitions.
 
Yeah.....you pretty much are.

You say all this stuff. Again that is not why people hunt. They donate meat because they can't use it all themselves. There are many ways to donate that don't involve hunting. Yes it is a nice side affect. Could the job get done without the hunting? Yes, if people were more apt to give than kill things.
 
Rocks can be thrown at windows. That's not why rocks were created, so that makes them useless.
Useless means "Does not have a use" It doesn't mean  "not the reason x was created"

Again, if deers overpopulate and starve that is their problem.
 
Brilliant. I think this says more than anything else you've said so far.

Do we hunt other animals for overpopulating and starving? No we wouldn't. We hunt deer because people like to shoot and eat them.
I seem to recall mentioning culling elephant herds in Africa a few posts back. Do a little research, I think you'll find this happens a lot more than you'd care to admit.

If hunting went away all the same effects could happen. That is why hunting is useless
 
Again you're taking creative liberties with 'useless.' Its getting funny.  

Guys could buy food to donate. This would bring money into an industry. This would bring money to the state in the form of sales tax. Places would get donations without paying for them.
 
State sales tax vs. direct revenue to the state? You're talking a few bucks in taxes vs a direct payment of funds.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

This is the dumbest argument I've read on here in a while, not gonna lie.
 
Elaborate or go away.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Again, if deers overpopulate and starve that is their problem.

Do we hunt other animals for overpopulating and starving? No we wouldn't. We hunt deer because people like to shoot and eat them.
So you consider it more humane to let the deer starve to death and die in the woods, than put them out of their misery and feed humans? It is our fault for encroaching upon their land, so isn't it our responsibility to control their population?
 
And yes, we do hunt other animals for overpopulation. Alligators immediately come to mind as I remember when they initiated the program to issue licenses to hunt them. They were endagered, that made illegal to hunt and the population exploded like cockroaches. Same issues with human encroachment into their habitat made for dangerous confrontations. The population had to be controlled, still does. Would you suggest they do away with this program as well? Because unlike deer, alligators hunt back.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 01 October 2009 at 2:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:50pm

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

deers
 
 
/thread


Edited by stratoaxe - 01 October 2009 at 2:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 2:58pm
Yes. I have no problems with alligators hunting back. Kill them if they attack you I don't care.

Don't go looking for them. Same with elephants.


Definition for useless: Having no practical use.


Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

deers
 
 
/thread


Oh cry because I said deers instead of deer.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Yes. I have no problems with alligators hunting back. Kill them if they attack you I don't care.

Don't go looking for them. Same with elephants.


Definition for useless: Having no practical use.


So thinning the population (via hunting)to lessen the chances of attacks against humans is useless? You see no value in this?
 
And for the record, I don't hunt. I don't have any moral objections against, it, I simply choose not to, it just isn't my bag.
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