Whats your opinion on Afghanistan?

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   Are you talking militarily, or the strategic long term view?

Militarily is simple:  Take the kiddy gloves off.

Long term?  Totally different story which Bri has pretty much hit on.

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Linus Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member Strike 1 - language 6.29.10 Joined: 10 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7908	Post Options Post Reply Quote Linus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 September 2009 at 1:23am
	Are you talking militarily, or the strategic long term view? Militarily is simple: Take the kiddy gloves off. Long term? Totally different story which Bri has pretty much hit on.


rednekk98 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member Dead man... Joined: 02 July 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8878	Post Options Post Reply Quote rednekk98 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 September 2009 at 11:52pm
	The entire government we've tried to set up there is wrong. It centralizes power too much. Karzai should not be able to appoint local governors. If it weren't for their human rights record, I'd say give it back to the Taliban. Get as many CIA contacts in there as possible to give us some idea if non-afghans are being trained there, pull out, and bomb it periodically.

tallen702 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: Under Your Bed Status: Offline Points: 10496	Post Options Post Reply Quote tallen702 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 September 2009 at 7:55pm
	To piggyback on what Bri had to say. The key theme in Afghanistan is that no one trusts the central government, and with good reason. Karzai's brother is the biggest drug-lord in all of Afghanistan, and much like the provincial governments of Somalia, the central government has zero control outside of the capital city. In reference to the division of the country by the tribal powers. I lay this issue directly at the feet of the British Empire. Rather than taking their time and setting the boundaries back the way they were before they came along and mucked everything up, the Brits essentially created countries that exist solely on maps out of hundreds of tribal kingdoms and chiefdoms. If the option to secede from the nation of Afghanistan was given to each district, I think you'd see at least half the country wish to break into their own little kingdoms. So, to achieve what we would wish to see, a peaceful, whole, and most importantly sustainable Afghanistan, we need to quit supporting a corrupt government, recognize the desire of the tribal groups to have at least some autonomy, and secure the border with Pakistan to keep insurgents from coming across and stirring up a hornets' nest.
	<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>

oldsoldier Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member Frequent target of infantile obsessives Joined: 10 June 2002 Status: Offline Points: 6480	Post Options Post Reply Quote oldsoldier Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 September 2009 at 7:42pm
	Several centuries of internal conflicts by the various sect within Afghanistan will not be settled anytime soon. The "Warlords" of these sects see no advantage of giving up thier power in lieu of a central government. The warrior ethos is a tradition, weapons being found go back to the British of the 19th Century, and are handed down in families as a almost religious expierience. Being a warrior is a right of passage for Afghan males. My boy has worked civil action missions out in the hinter lands far from the urban centers. Most of these tribal groups are still in the 12th-14th Century in tradition. The British, the Russians, now US have tried, and are trying. As my boy has said to me, most of the Afghan population could care less who thinks they are in charge in Kabul, the local "Warlord" is who is truely in charge, and all actions are to please the local, rather than a "government" these people have never seen. Interesting side note, the group my son worked for were armed with Martini-Henry's and early LeeEnfields, no modern arms, and they were kids in a candy store when they recieved the olded M16A2's from the US. In the initial celebration alone they burned through several cases of ammunition and the elders were busy planning a raid on their neighbors under a rival "warlord". Yes that is Afghanistan.


brihard Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member Strike 1 - Making stuff up Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10148	Post Options Post Reply Quote brihard Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 September 2009 at 5:59pm
	If we're going to do it properly, wre'll still be there in 20 years. Remember that Iraq only stabilized quite recently. Also remember that Iraq as a nation is used to having a stable society relatively united under one gov ernment, however poor a government it was. Afghanistan has been nearly two generations without peace, but it has functioned as a stable state back in the 60s and 70s. They were, in fact, beginning significant liberal reforms in the 70s., It was pushing these too fast that led to the first modern insurgency there, which in turn drew in Soviet military presence in order to prop up what was, for the Soviets, a very friendly government. The people want a peaceful stable state. Most of them could care less about a central government in Kabul, but they certainly don't want the Taliban in most cases. It's going to be very critical to eventually pull of a fairly clean, relatively fair election, where the presidency changes and the results are abided by. They need to see that a transition of power can be accomplished without violent overthrow. There is also a huge need to improve the educational system and other social infrastructure. They need economic opportunity other than agriculture and herding. A generation of kids needs to be raised to be optimistic about their country, and to know enough to want better than what the Taliban offer them. An alternative needs to be found to opium cultivation, and this is starting to happen with wheat crops. Wheat can bring in as much cash for the farmers, without resulting in the massive drug profits that have typically benefited the Neo-Taliban and other insurgents. The border with Pakistan needs to be secured. Right now insurgents pass across at will. The border itself is very artifical; known as the Duran Line it was artificially imposed through the middle of Pashtun tribal territory by the British, so as to create a buffer state between what was then the Russian empire and the British empire in India. Afghanistan could well be a more viable state if the Pashtun regions were separated from the rest of Afghansitan and given autonomy. To be blunt, the Pashtuns are the problem. If we could carve off southern Afghanistan and northern PAkistan, wall them in and cut them off from the rest of the world, checking back every century or so, we'd be better off than we are now., The place is just so goddamned backwards it's mind numbing. In the long term they must be weaned off of the tribal system. It is very, very real and very powerful. Take two neighbouring villages; one may love us and support us, the other may be a deathtrap for coalition forces moving through their territory. We must swallow hard and accept the continuing human cost. What we're doing IS worth it, but it WILL be very hard to accept the sacrifices necessary. The people there want a better life, and we can give it to them if we stay the course. If we give up and pull out it will be a tremendous betrayal of all the Afghans who've sought for the past eight years to make their country better.
	"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation." -FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011. Yup, he actually said that.

Rofl_Mao Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Platinum Member request denied Joined: 27 October 2008 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3111	Post Options Post Reply Quote Rofl_Mao Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 September 2009 at 5:40pm
	This message from Mullah Omar said that they are prepared for a long war and won't end until NATO pulls out. Do you think they are BSing? I'm not really sure what to think - if we should continue to stay there or pull out.