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Why Knock Indoctrination?... It obviously WORKS!

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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:33pm
So you see no potential of an "agree to grade", and using the public schools not to teach but as a political footboard. They have already won if you can not see a problem with this, and when your child comes home from school being taught a value or political agenda you do not agree with, there will be no concern?


No problems with a "Dear Leader" styled political approach.....see North Korea.



Edited by oldsoldier - 02 September 2009 at 5:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

So you see no potential of an "agree to grade", and using the public schools not to teach but as a political footboard. They have already won if you can not see a problem with this, and when your child comes home from school being taught a value or political agenda you do not agree with, there will be no concern?


No problems with a "Dear Leader" styled political approach.....see North Korea.



What is this agree to grade you speak of? Teachers don't grade based on their political party. I am sure you would due to your hate of anything liberal.

Public school are not being used a political footboard. The man is giving a speech that in the end basically says "stay in school and you can be president one day". However delusional it is, he is not telling little kids to agree with everything he says.

As long as the political agenda is have goals and stay in school I would have no problem with it at all. Hell. I would let you and FE personally deliver that message.

Your constant illusions that we will become Nazi Germany, or Communist Russia, or NK are ridiculous. Noone has any intentions of being a supreme leader of the country and it would never happen. Do you know why it would never happen? Because even people like me who is apparently some left leaning liberal according to you would never allow it if there was ever a real threat to that. There isn't a real threat Glenn Beck, and Bill O'Reilly just like to blow things out of proportion.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:56pm
Then explain the past 8 years of political "fears" from the left, of an overbearing government, and then a lets let the government manage everything approach upon the election of Obama.

History itself should show you a pattern once youth is targeted to push an agenda. And yes if little Johnny puts on his Obama homework report that there should be no change in healthcare, and Reagan was a good President, there will be no reflectrion in the grade, where is your reality actually located at?
What is your learned view of Reagan, what the schools told you to say, you only politically matured in the George Bush years, and your opinions based on the media representation and education system will reflect. You really should have been there for the Carter years, and then the Reagan "change", if you really want to see the political line drawn at its finest.

Do you really understand what "National Socialism" actually was?

Edited by oldsoldier - 02 September 2009 at 5:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:59pm
So which classes are being dropped to push political agendas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Then explain the past 8 years of political "fears" from the left, of an overbearing government, and then a lets let the government manage everything approach upon the election of Obama.

Even these "fears" that I don't actually remember any of were irrational. The only thing I remember is the Patriot Act. Something that actually infringes on some freedoms. Oh yeah you have no problem with that because it isn't liberal. I forgot about your partisan politics.


History itself should show you a pattern once youth is targeted to push an agenda. And yes if little Johnny puts on his Obama homework report that there should be no change in healthcare, and Reagan was a good President, there will be no reflectrion in the grade, where is your reality actually located at?

Where is your reality located at? I could have wrote Hitler is the best person in the world and my grade wouldn't have been affected if it had proper sentence structure and grammar. if I used legitimate sources no points would have been deducted. Teachers do not grade based on politics.

What is your learned view of Reagan, what the schools told you to say, you only politically matured in the George Bush years, and your opinions based on the media representation and education system will reflect. You really should have been there for the Carter years, and then the Reagan "change", if you really want to see the political line drawn at its finest.

Do you really understand what "National Socialism" actually was?

Do you?
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:28pm
Yes, I do, and I have talked to elderly German civilians and attended lectures by elderly German military, while stationed in Germany describing the period from those who lived it, not an educators lecture on his/her belief on how it was. Many a night in a Guesthaus or Waffenkeller, looking at the photo albums and listening to the people discuss thier youth, makes me fear any even close application of the techniques used to gain power then total control. Remmember Hitler was also elected, yes elected in 1933, on the promise of a social "change". And his first step to total power was to enamure the youth to his goals and agendas. History Channel and Military Channel have more than enough coverage on the era, and how the transformation from a Republic to a Dictatorship was accomplished, and a "cult of personality" approach to education and then pure social acceptance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:42pm
Hitler was a crazy crazy man. He wanted to be a supreme ruler/dictator. He would have been happy if he succeeded without being elected when he tried in 1923.

Oh wait, I forgot, Obama must have  tried to takeover the government before he was elected too.....


Edited by jmac3 - 02 September 2009 at 6:46pm
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Hitler was a crazy crazy man. He wanted to be a supreme ruler/dictator. He would have been happy been happy if he succeeded without being elected when he tried in 1923.

Oh wait, I forgot, Obama must have  tried to takeover the government before he was elected too.....

No, but the liberals did. Haven't you recognized the similarities by now? All liberals are nazis.

Also, OS, I do remember the Smitty posts during the Bush administration. They were just as crazy and loaded with tinfoil as the sensationalist right wing fears we see today.


Edited by High Voltage - 02 September 2009 at 6:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 7:58pm
No problem, step daughters school has announced an "opt out" day, for students who do not wish to view or participate in this. No parental signature needed, but a pamphlet will be sent home so parents are also included in this decesion. Nor will thiere be assignments based on speach given to opt out students, comman sense approach, even schools are having a hard time with this.

This political "landmine" will come back to hurt Obama and his congressional crew as his approval numbers continue to drop, as even many in his own party are seeing through the illusion presented and fleeing to preserve thier careers in congress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 8:09pm
Ok, so I read the news story, and I read the ed.gov website, and I read the "study guides," and I am having a really hard time seeing how there is anything bad about this. Seriously.  I just don't see it.
 
Here is what it happening:
 
1.  The President of the United States will make a speech directed to K-12 students. 
2.  The speech will address the importance of education, setting goals, and striving for self-improvement.
3.  The speech will be available free to everybody, live online and on TV, and subsequently a free download.
4.  The DOE encourages (but does not require) teachers to let their students watch the speech.
5.  The DOE encourages (but does not require) teachers to use the speech as a teaching tool.
6.  The DOE provides free optional teaching materials to help make the speech a teaching tool.
7.  These free optional materials encourage independent thinking and the study of history, as well as goal-setting and goal-achievement.
 
Somebody please point to the bad part?
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

No problem, step daughters school has announced an "opt out" day, for students who do not wish to view or participate in this. No parental signature needed, but a pamphlet will be sent home so parents are also included in this decesion.


If that's true I am in fact pissed.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

No problem, step daughters school has announced an "opt out" day, for students who do not wish to view or participate in this. No parental signature needed, but a pamphlet will be sent home so parents are also included in this decesion. Nor will thiere be assignments based on speach given to opt out students, comman sense approach, even schools are having a hard time with this.

 
THIS is "comman sense?"
 
Allowing students to unilaterally decide not to participate in school activities, without parental approval?  This goes K-12?  Nine-year-old kids will be given a choice between watching some boring guy talk for an hour or take extra recess (or whatever)?
 
Comman sense indeed.

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 8:22pm
8 years ago this type of national televised speach to the classroom by George Bush would be met with the same tearing of clothes and knashing of teeth, only the sides would be differant. American politics...go figure.

Why pissed, the student can opt out of military recruiting notifacation, and pregnant female students can opt out of telling thier parents they are seeking an abortion, and other opt out programs. So why pissed?

And Peter, didn't we enjoy the extra recess way back when, when all the girls went to the auditorium for some movie?   School admins also need public support, and are doin the old "duck and cover" on this one.

Edited by oldsoldier - 02 September 2009 at 8:25pm
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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

8 years ago this type of national televised speach to the classroom by George Bush would be met with the same tearing of clothes and knashing of teeth, only the sides would be differant. American politics...go figure.

You say it would, but it probably wouldn't have. I believe President bush was in a classroom on 9/11 and noone complained about that.

Why pissed, the student can opt out of military recruiting notifacation, and pregnant female students can opt out of telling thier parents they are seeking an abortion, and other opt out programs. So why pissed?

Not the same thing.

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   Bush was in a single classromm.... NOT every classroom in the country.... slight difference.

This is not a teacher on video, it's a troubled President.

Not sure why this seems so perfectly innocent when the family isn't included as part of the program.

Bring it up to the whole country and let the parents figure out if it's OK for their own children...... That's what parents are supposed to do.

We'll see what's said and then decide if it is appropriate..... if you get to see it as a parent......

The "support your President" message that's been hinted to isn't a small deal if you are part of the 53% of the voters that don't approve of what he's doing.

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Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

8 years ago this type of national televised speach to the classroom by George Bush would be met with the same tearing of clothes and knashing of teeth, only the sides would be differant. American politics...go figure.
 
I don't know that your speculation is correct.
 
But if people had been upset about Bush giving a similar speech 8 years ago, they would have been fools then too.  Political tools and fools are just that, no matter the political affiliation.  That does not affect the underlying issue.
 
Why would I not have wanted President Bush to speak to the students of America on setting high standards for oneself?  I would have welcomed it.

Quote Why pissed, the student can opt out of military recruiting notifacation, and pregnant female students can opt out of telling thier parents they are seeking an abortion, and other opt out programs. So why pissed?
 
I am quite confident I am not "pissed".
 
I am also quite confident neither of those circumstances you describe involve students electing not to participate in part of the curriculum, and even more confident that neither situation involves 9-year-olds.  I don't think parental consent should be required for hardly anything at all in high school.  Elementary school is a different matter.

Quote And Peter, didn't we enjoy the extra recess way back when, when all the girls went to the auditorium for some movie?   
 
Actually, I went to a school with actual sex ed.  No secret movie for the girls.  But your enjoyment of the extra recess does not make that extra recess a good thing.  Kids are in school to learn, not to have as much recess as possible.
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by pepprdog pepprdog wrote:

   Bush was in a single classromm.... NOT every classroom in the country.... slight difference.

Not really a difference at all. OS says people would make a stink about it. There is an example where they didn't.

This is not a teacher on video, it's a troubled President.

A troubled president? You know who wasn't a teacher either? The reformed alcoholics and junkies who spoke at my school.

Not sure why this seems so perfectly innocent when the family isn't included as part of the program.

Because it is perfectly innocent. It is no different than anything anyone else says during school. Try to make and achieve goals. Sure it is a little bit strange for the president to do such a broad speech, but it is all the same. Why does the family need to be involved with a motivational speech?

Bring it up to the whole country and let the parents figure out if it's OK for their own children...... That's what parents are supposed to do.

No. Parents are supposed to parent. They are supposed to teach right from wrong. Their job isn't to say "oh hey Obama is a bad man you don't need to listen" Let kids have their own thoughts for christs sake.

We'll see what's said and then decide if it is appropriate..... if you get to see it as a parent......

As PP said it will be available online and on TV


The "support your President" message that's been hinted to isn't a small deal if you are part of the 53% of the voters that don't approve of what he's doing.

53% really? Almost forgot he won with a majority vote. I fail to see a support your president message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by pepprdog pepprdog wrote:

   Bush was in a single classromm.... NOT every classroom in the country.... slight difference.

This is not a teacher on video, it's a troubled President.

Not sure why this seems so perfectly innocent when the family isn't included as part of the program.

Bring it up to the whole country and let the parents figure out if it's OK for their own children...... That's what parents are supposed to do.

We'll see what's said and then decide if it is appropriate..... if you get to see it as a parent......

The "support your President" message that's been hinted to isn't a small deal if you are part of the 53% of the voters that don't approve of what he's doing.
 
Are we talking about the same thing here?  What speech are you talking about?  What message?
 
The speech and materials I am discussing encourages children to learn about history and current events, encourages students to listen actively and extract topics for discussion, and then to discuss those topics, and encourages students to set and achieve high goals.
 
Aren't these things we want for our kids?  Why would any parent want their child to opt out of learning?
 
I really, really, really don't see where you people are finding some evil plot in this.  Seriously - I don't.
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2009 at 9:20pm
It's evil because a democrat is saying it.
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