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Facts About ObamaCare, What you need to know...

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Tical3.0 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical3.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

attempt to stifle his voice
You'll have to point out where that happened.


should i copy/paste almost the entire thread?
Do us all a favor and don't
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

attempt to stifle his voice
You'll have to point out where that happened.


should i copy/paste almost the entire thread?


FE's original post is still there. While yes, people posting about their lunches and such is rather annoying, and people should probably just let the thread die as opposed to what is actually happening, FE's post is still there and people can still continue the health-care debate here if they like.

Again, please point out where a voice has been stifled.
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:25pm
Instead of that... Why don't you point out your coverage of the complaints against Obamacare from your paper?
 
I would be interested in your "non-biased" viewpoints that you felt the need to print, since Obamacare will affect young peoples income more than everyone else, as currently they pay the least, and since the obamacare plan has a 1/2 rule their costs will skyrocket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impulse88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:33pm
<About had it with your crap>
 
 


Edited by Enos Shenk - 11 August 2009 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:35pm
dude... There are these things called cutting boards... Look into getting one...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Why don't you point out your coverage of the complaints against Obamacare from your paper?



One thing that needs to be clarified before I go any further: The things that run on the opinions page are just that: Opinions. Be it a column, a stance, letters to the editor or online comments (We've recently begun printing those), they are based in opinion and are not news coverage.

That said, over the summer, the paper ran this, against the way Obama has been handling the proposed new reform:

http://www.centralfloridafuture.com/obama-s-partisan-ideals-show-in-bill-1.1776300

We also printed some of the comments to that opinions piece, but we don't re-post those online anywhere else, because they are already online. If that makes sense.
 
Quote I would be interested in your "non-biased" viewpoints that you felt the need to print, since Obamacare will affect young peoples income more than everyone else, as currently they pay the least, and since the obamacare plan has a 1/2 rule their costs will skyrocket.


Wait a bit and we will have something. We're in the process of talking to the on-campus health center, as well as students of the new medical school, to see what they have to say about it. We will also probably talk to an economist or two to get their take.

The only problem so far is the on-campus health center. They have a frustrating series of hoops to jump through in order to talk to anyone from a nurse to an executive. It's slowing the story down, much to my chagrin.


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bounty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 4:29pm
I just picked up some Buffalo Wild Wings, its been too long since I've had wings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

dude... There are these things called cutting boards... Look into getting one...


are you his mother? damn. he can cut stuff wherever he feels like it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 5:45pm
Alright, all of you spamming off-topic nonsense in here stow that crap. I dont much like FE either, but you can use your brain and just NOT READ HIS THREADS.

Because Im going to bust out the banhammer if moronic crap like this happens again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bounty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2009 at 8:24pm
I was actually quite interested in peoples opinion on Moes. I apologize for my last comment, that was just spam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 4:20am
For those of you posting off-topic stuff to try to kill the thread, you're actually helping it by keeping it on the first page. If you want these threads to go away, you'd be better off ignoring them. And you'd even get the added benefit of not looking like an immature fool, imagine that! Shocked

Regarding the topic in the OP:

I'm not sure how much of that is true since I haven't read up on this stuff much and I don't have time to. However, I have heard a lot of the talk about it since it's all over TV, radio, and the internet and I don't think I've really heard anything that I like so far. I even find myself agreeing with Glenn Beck lately although I should do my own research when I have free time again. At the moment, I'm convinced that the next few years (and possibly even more than that) will suck hardcore in every way for many people.
oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 7:51am
The American media has lost its power. By trumpeting the DNC's talking points at every opportunity they have lost their credibility to even the most loyal viewer/reader. It is sad when they get scooped by blogs on the internet of people that actually read the bill, and report on what they read, while the media just reads the talking points and ignores the topic at hand.
 
Examples of this phenomenon in the health care debate
 
 
It really is sad, how lazy reporters have gotten, I bet I have read more of the health care bill than most of them have... And they certainly allow Obama to keep lying about "his" bill. (funny, I didn't see his name on the only bill out there, sent in from the house...)
 
I did see that there will be a panel that will decide our fate. And they will have the power to decide if we are "worth" having treatment. (saying no to life saving treatment is a "death panel".... Facts hurt)
 
I also heard obama say he want a single payer system and over time his goal is to get us there ( a fact he is now trying to spin that he didn't say... too bad there is youtube with the video)
 
I also heard obama say that maybe the woman who is 99 shouldn't have gotten a pacemaker, maybe she should have been given a pain pill instead... yeah, that would cost less. Or just give her family a shovel to dig her  grave.
 
Because that is where we are today, private options are better than government options, just look at Obama's example of the post office vs fed ex and UPS.
 
Even he said the post office is the one with all the problems.
 
 
Well Mr. President. Maybe instead of messing up ANOTHER industry (you are doing so well at taking over the banks, (hows that AIG bailout going?), and Government motors) you should focus on the current government entities that are such a mess.
 
Maybe a little tort reform would fix many of the ills of our health care system (that would be true reform, and would actually LOWER costs, which is the fake title of the Obamacare bill).
 
Maybe put in a little $25 copay on any "government" plan if you wanted to save money...
 
Maybe allow hospitals to stop treating illegal aliens for every healthcare need they have...
 
But, its all about putting up fake townhall meetings like yesterday, where its just spin, and contrived attendees. You should have mixed in at least 1 protester, to give yourself some credibility... But, we all know all you care about is passing healthcare, so you can take over another industry, then you will be in control of 45% of our economy.
 
While getting people to "tell" on anyone against you. Yeah, thats American...
 
Since we all know that any corrispondence with the white house has to by law be saved. But, you say you won't save this "tattle tale" info...
 
Which one is the lie?
 
See, talking out of both sides of your mouth is fine during a campaign, but when the rubber meets the road, you have to actually take a stand. And sadly there is an Obamacare bill, that all of us can read, so trying to spin what is actually says destroys the little credibility you had left.


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 12 August 2009 at 8:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I<3FE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 9:54am
Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

For those of you posting off-topic stuff to try to kill the thread, you're actually helping it by keeping it on the first page.


Really? I never would of figured that out! Thank you mr miagi!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 11:23am
Just the highlights to save space.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
I did see that there will be a panel that will decide our fate. And they will have the power to decide if we are "worth" having treatment. (saying no to life saving treatment is a "death panel".... Facts hurt)

Someone please give me the bill version and page this is on, while I have found references to a "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" that will have the authority "to recommend covered benefits"  on page 30 this is a far cry from the claims made by opponents that they will essentially be in place to deny treatment to those unworthy of it.  (I do have a problem with the fact that while the board will contain all kinds of experts,. such as those on "health care financing and delivery, experts in racial and ethnic disparities" etc, it is only required to have one practicing physician as a member.)
 
Maybe put in a little $25 copay on any "government" plan if you wanted to save money...

This is a half decent idea.  I saw quite a bit of abuse of the military healthcare system that such a copay would have probably prevented.  (I.e. people going in for things that they wouldn't have bothered with if it cost them anything.)
 
Maybe allow hospitals to stop treating illegal aliens for every healthcare need they have...

These lines, from page 52, would indicate that perhaps such free care (subsidized by paying citizens) would actually be provided to illegal aliens:

". . . all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of  high quality health care or related services."


I'm still reviewing this bill, but the further I get into it the more convinced I am of several things:
  • It is a bad idea.
  • All of the claims, from both sides, need to be verified by seeing the actual bill.
  • Everyone who is dogging on FE should actually read the bill.
  • FE should actually read the bill as well, as opposed to just taking negative attacks on it at face value.


Edited by Mack - 12 August 2009 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 12:16pm
The talk and worry of government "death panels" is hilarious, seeing as it is the JOB of the insurance agency to make sure you don't get approved for your coverage.

It's the reason they have offices upon offices upon offices of people whose only job is to investigate every single way they can get out of paying out on a claim.

When the insurance company has to pay out for something, they lose money (Or, make less money). When they deny you, you profit.

Who runs the real "death panels" here?
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 1:41pm
Link to the bill is here, I have read a ton of it, as I don't post stuff unless I verify it is in there... (stupid media ethics classes drilled that into me in college)
 
 
Page 30 is the troubling aspect as it puts non doctors in charge of deciding if you will get treatment or not.
 
Facts are these "choices" have life and death implications.
 
Here is the wording of the "death board"...
"There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans."
 
The 64-year-old Oregon woman, whose lung cancer had been in remission, learned the disease had returned and would likely kill her. Her last hope was a $4,000-a-month drug that her doctor prescribed for her, but the insurance company refused to pay.

What the Oregon Health Plan (state run health care) did agree to cover, however, were drugs for a physician-assisted death. Those drugs would cost about $50.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1

I'm sure the health board in Obamacare would have a different view?... Right?...


More

"It's challenging because health care is very expensive, but that's not the real essence of our priority list," said Dr. Jeanene Smith, administrator for the Office of for Oregon's Health Policy and Research staff.

"We need evidence to say it is a good use of taxpayer's dollars," she said. "It may be expensive, but if it does wonders, we cover it."

The state also regularly evaluates and updates approvals for cancer treatments. "We look as exhaustively as we can with good peer review evidence," she said.

The health plan takes "no position" on the physician-assisted suicide law, according to spokesman Jim Sellers.

The terminally ill who qualify can receive pain medication, comfort and hospice care, "no matter what the cost," he said.

But Sellers acknowledged the letter to Wagner was a public relations blunder and something the state is "working on."




I think Death panel would be a pretty accurate title for a board that decides expense vs payoff in health "care"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 1:49pm
So? Private insurance plans have drug formularies, too. Some things are covered, some aren't. 

Edited by Benjichang - 12 August 2009 at 1:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

So? Private insurance plans have drug formularies, too. Some things are covered, some aren't. 
 
Ahh... so you are catching on now huh.
 
Well the only difference is...
 
 
 
Wait for it....
 
 
You can sue a private health care system, if they go overboard and deny payment to save your grandma's life...
 
With Obamacare it states you can't sue. No matter what. The language in the bill says that the person in charge of Obamacare (secretary) is ABOVE the courts...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 2:05pm

Originally posted by Cited artcile Cited artcile wrote:

The median survival among patients who took erlotinib was 6.7 months compared to 4.7 months for those on placebo. At one year, 31 percent of the patients taking erlotinib were still alive compared to 22 percent of those taking the placebo.
  So a median extended life expectancy ,for a lifelong smoker who has already gone through Chemo and incurred thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of treatment, of two months is worth $24k in your opinion?  That works out to roughly $12,000 per month of additional life. Granted, I might think differently if in the same position, but come on. It's not like she hasn't seen it coming since it appears she has been battling this for over 4 years now. At what point is enough enough? Sure if it was a cure, but it admittingly is not. As a Christian, you would think you would be ok with this. Isn't she going to a better place?



Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 August 2009 at 2:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 August 2009 at 2:12pm
As a Christian I believe in sactity of life...
 
My family is primarily doctors, and they all sign the hipocratic oath.
 

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

 
How many of the "health care death board" will abide by this oath?
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