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Happy Birthday Obama! |
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jmac3
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Posted: 07 August 2009 at 8:28pm |
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So, FE did you know Cap and Trade is not a tax or are you ignoring it like always?
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Que pasa?
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Gatyr
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Strike 1 - Begging for strikes Joined: 06 July 2003 Location: Austin, Tx Status: Offline Points: 10298 |
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Posted: 07 August 2009 at 11:44pm |
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The sad thing is you think you are making coherent points and arguments by posting youtube videos. LOL. |
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FreeEnterprise
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Not a card-carrying member of the DNC Joined: 14 October 2008 Location: Trails Of Doom Status: Offline Points: 4711 |
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 11:01am |
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I'm sure the same people that pay for the cigarette tax will be paying for cap and trade...
You know, the rich...
They will soak up the additional costs, and everyone else will be able to feel the love from spreading the wealth around.
Oh, wait, they passed on the cigarette tax to the consumers. Oh, the outrage. Well, at least is isn't called a "tax" right? Paying more for something because someone ELSE has a larger tax burden isn't really a tax...
Come on.
"Politicians love cap and trade because they can claim to be taxing "polluters," not workers. Hardly. Once the government creates a scarce new commodity -- in this case the right to emit carbon -- and then mandates that businesses buy it, the costs would inevitably be passed on to all consumers in the form of higher prices. Stating the obvious, Peter Orszag -- now Mr. Obama's budget director -- told Congress last year that "Those price increases are essential to the success of a cap-and-trade program."
Hit hardest would be the "95% of working families" Mr. Obama keeps mentioning, usually omitting that his no-new-taxes pledge comes with the caveat "unless you use energy." Putting a price on carbon is regressive by definition because poor and middle-income households spend more of their paychecks on things like gas to drive to work, groceries or home heating." |
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They tremble at my name...
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mbro
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Original Forum Gangster Joined: 11 June 2002 Location: Isle Of Man Status: Offline Points: 10728 |
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 11:10am |
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Hasn't it already been posted that:
We already have cap and trade systems. They have been largely successful. They don't cost consumers that much. They spur development of cleaner, cheaper technology. ??? Or am I just missing something and rereading an old thread? |
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
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FreeEnterprise
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 11:24am |
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No, you are doing a good job of reposting the liberal viewpoint that has been pushed into your mind since you were young.
Even Obama said that Cap and trade would "skyrocket energy costs"...
We will be paying gas prices like Europe for a "global warming" scam...
What is your electric bill now? You can double it if they pass cap and trade, while businesses would have their energy costs quadruple... Which they will pass on to you, in higher costs.
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mbro
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 11:57am |
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Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos. |
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Skillet42565
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:06pm |
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Global Warming scam...?< id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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FreeEnterprise
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:37pm |
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"The number of skeptics, far from shrinking, is swelling. Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe now counts more than 700 scientists who disagree with the U.N. -- 13 times the number who authored the U.N.'s 2007 climate summary for policymakers. Joanne Simpson, the world's first woman to receive a Ph.D. in meteorology, expressed relief upon her retirement last year that she was finally free to speak "frankly" of her nonbelief. Dr. Kiminori Itoh, a Japanese environmental physical chemist who contributed to a U.N. climate report, dubs man-made warming "the worst scientific scandal in history." Norway's Ivar Giaever, Nobel Prize winner for physics, decries it as the "new religion." A group of 54 noted physicists, led by Princeton's Will Happer, is demanding the American Physical Society revise its position that the science is settled. (Both Nature and Science magazines have refused to run the physicists' open letter.) The collapse of the "consensus" has been driven by reality. The inconvenient truth is that the earth's temperatures have flat-lined since 2001, despite growing concentrations of C02. Peer-reviewed research has debunked doomsday scenarios about the polar ice caps, hurricanes, malaria, extinctions, rising oceans. A global financial crisis has politicians taking a harder look at the science that would require them to hamstring their economies to rein in carbon." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.htmlregardless of the huge number of scientists that now claim the global warming being "man made" was in fact wrong... All you have to do is look at our temperatures in July.
while C02 increased...
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They tremble at my name...
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JohnnyCanuck
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In soviet Canuckistan... Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1296 |
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:41pm |
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MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
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Benjichang
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 12:41pm |
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Mack
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Has no impulse! control Joined: 13 January 2004 Location: 2nd Circle Status: Offline Points: 9698 |
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 4:58pm |
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Regarding cap and trade: FE, you are wrong, it is not a tax. It is merely a government mandated expense that will have effect of decreasing the competitiveness of the affected businesses while resulting in additional costs for consumers. So there!
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Peter Parker
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Posted: 10 August 2009 at 5:12pm |
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lolwut? |
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"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself". Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common? |
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FreeEnterprise
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Posted: 11 August 2009 at 7:42am |
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Doh!... Your right...
interesting read, but I'm sure its tl for most on here tr. I tried to find a youtube since we all know that meets your attention spans... But, there wasn't one.
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jmac3
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Posted: 12 August 2009 at 4:40pm |
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Mack, sarcasm or not you are right.
There is a difference between a tax and something that may raise costs on something else. Next time I pay for higher priced gas I am going to blame Obama for raising my gas taxes. |
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Que pasa?
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FreeEnterprise
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 12:03pm |
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Sen. Debbie Stabenow, Energy LeaderDetroit, Mich. - Michigan just experienced its coldest July on record; global temperatures haven't risen in more than a decade; Great Lakes water levels have resumed their 30-year cyclical rise (contrary to a decade of media scare stories that they were drying up due to global warming), and polls show that climate change doesn't even make a list of Michigan voters' top-ten concerns.Yet in an interview with the Detroit News Monday, Senator Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.) - recently appointed to the Senate Energy Committee - made clear that fighting the climate crisis is her top priority. "Climate change is very real," she confessed as she embraced cap and trade's massive tax increase on Michigan industry - at the same time claiming, against all the evidence, that it would not lead to an increase in manufacturing costs or energy prices. "Global warming creates volatility. I feel it when I'm flying. The storms are more volatile. We are paying the price in more hurricanes and tornadoes." |
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They tremble at my name...
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Mack
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Has no impulse! control Joined: 13 January 2004 Location: 2nd Circle Status: Offline Points: 9698 |
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 12:32pm |
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I don't care what they call it . . . government mandates that result in me spending more annoy me. |
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Ceesman762
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Time for a C-Section! Joined: 15 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 12:36pm |
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Agreed.
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Innocence proves nothing
Tippmann Forum Militia Commander On the S.S. FE Embargo |
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jmac3
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 1:59pm |
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I'll agree, but that is not why I was arguing. I am sick of people blaming the government for raising "taxes" that were never actually taxes. It is used in an argument to discredit anything the current administration does, and it is not even a factual argument. |
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Que pasa?
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Captain Obvious
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 11:35pm |
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Barack Hussein Obama is the current president of the United States.
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slackerr26
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Strike 2 - language, 8/20 Joined: 24 June 2008 Location: Russian Federation Status: Offline Points: 1697 |
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Posted: 13 August 2009 at 11:42pm |
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sweet
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