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FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 11:25am
why should they?
 
The democratic mentality is to take care of people "from cradle to grave"...
 
They force you to do things because they don't believe in personal responsibility.
 
We all have to listen to the voice in the box to tell us what to do, how to eat, where to go to school, and who to vote for...
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 11:41am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

why should they?
 
The democratic mentality is to take care of people "from cradle to grave"...
 
They force you to do things because they don't believe in personal responsibility.
 
We all have to listen to the voice in the box to tell us what to do, how to eat, where to go to school, and who to vote for...
 
 
  Versus listening to the voice from above to tell us what to do, how to eat, what to beleive in, and who to vote for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 12:13pm
I agree with FE. Schools anymore are Orwellian in the way they educate.
You are educated to a stardardized test, inovation and initiative are not allowed outside of the government requirements, and heaven forbid the student question the political views of the instructor. All the social engineering work being done by the public schools, where students are taught what to think, how to think, and do not question the views and or official opinions presented. Show me a high school graduate that can write (longhand) any sort of paper, they are taught to be dependant on a word processor with spell check and other assistance elements. Show me a high school grad that can do simple math in his/her head, go to any fast food joint and give the cashier a challenge in making change, and watch the fun, as he/she calls for a manager because they can not rationalize what just happened.

Preparation for the real world should begin in school, not after you are dumped illprepared into it. Once the "grad" actually has to make a decesion, and is not told what and how to do whatever, the level of preparation that the public school they went to has given them is pretty self evident.

I still can not fathom my expieriences at Southeast Community College and the local recent high school graduates attending. It was like they though it was 13th and 14th grade, "tell me what I am supposed to do, do not expect me to actually think this process through" was my perception of my classmates. The deer in the headlight looks when the professor asked them a question that they were not already told the answer too was priceless. Once my classmates found that I could hold my own, and could do what was required the invitations to "study groups" increased dramatically. I actually took a few under my wing during Socialology, and during our sessions the blank look from them when we were discussing real world situations and applications was appalling. (I do have to admit though being around well endowed college girls again was "interesting" to say the least, I hate getting old)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impulse88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 1:44pm
Why is every parents, who home school, republican? Just another thing I noticed..... (Before you call me a liberal, you better bite your lip)

I love how you guys are saying your not "sheltering" your kids. This is the biggest case of denial I have heard in a long time. You say kids are in fear of saying their opinions because it might be against the teachers "views". I can say first hand this is the complete opposite. I think you are mistaking your childhood with ours. When back then you were suppose to go with the flow, and just do the work. You say the kids will develop their personality, from social settings with their parents; and not from homeschooling..... That's just it, they shouldn't develop their personalities from their parents. They should develop it from their peers. Yeah don't get me wrong, if they are hanging out with the "wrong crowd", give them a push in the right direction. But I'm telling you,my first day of college I could tell , who were homeschooled, and who weren't. I even asked one of my instructors one day, and they agreed.

You guys are the one who are prejudice about our education system. All you remember was when you went to school. Yeah it's completely different today, for the good and worse. You guys are so hung up on the "omg their teacher might be a liberal, or omg what if they tell little johnny maybe we never landed on the  moon". You have to remember, a lot of teachers/instructors/professors are  the baby boomers and younger. AKA the hippy era, of course their ideas and views will differ from yours.

You guys complain that the education is "by the book" now of days. Wouldn't this put you guys at ease? Knowing that ex-hippy isn't allowed to express his personal views, and teach a unbiased curriculum? Because I gurantee it wasn't like that when you guys went to school. The teachers had a lot more leeway in what they could teach. But back then it was the same views as yours and your parents, so it didn't bother you right?

If you want to blame the down fall of our education system, blame it on the overcrowding of schools; and under funding. Because you know, public education is socialism; just like the VA, Social Security etc etc.




Edited by Impulse88 - 31 July 2009 at 1:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 2:09pm
I would seriously have considered home schooling, but did the private school thing instead. Homeschooling does not give an appropiate amount of interpersonnal time, a needed skill in the real world. Homeschooling does have advantages, as well as limitations.

Having expierienced the post WW2 educational system, then having kids in school during the 70's-90's there are very distinct differences. I was taught the basics and all the them new social experiment classes were options. Yes, the teachers today are the ones coming out of the radical student era of the late 60's early 70's, and a lot of the social experimentation is imprinted in thier message to the students, known or subconcious.

I have dealt with teachers and administrators who are veterans of thier schooling during the radical era, and I have had a very distinct feeling in my discussions with them that since I was a neanderthal (ie soldier) my thoughts and opinions were illrelevant. Example- High School history teacher invites a anti-war group to speak to the class. Pampletes and opt-out forms were passed out. Upon collection the opt-out forms names were read out and a round of applause was given for each opt-out, lead by the teacher. I called him on it, armed with statements from several students, went to school, approached principle with my concerns. My primary concern was that there were several National Guard and Reserve units from the area deployed, and what message was the teacher sending to the student that may have a parent ot parents deployed or preparing for deployment. The principle gave me the soft cell, and called the suspect teacher into the room. Said teacher did not understand my concern over deployed parents and stated was only giving his students an option(the only option he considered though). My question was what alternatives if any were presented, he stated none. He was tenured, so basically untouchable btw. He then told me as an alternative he was serving the nation as a teacher, and had no desire to serve otherwise, ever.
Later this same teacher approached my step-son and stated to him that I thought he (the teacher) was unpatriotic, again I called said teacher and stated that any negative action real or percieved taken against step-son would result in my single mission in life, of seeing him removed from the classrooms. My college PolySci and History professors (husband and wife) know of this individual and his direct actions within the anti-war as well as more radical political persuits. So this individual will not teach solely from his perspective and grade accordingly? Please get real, and when your kids are in school and come home questioning your life choices, only then will you understand what you are dealing with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impulse88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 2:16pm
And you just proved my point. None of this blatant agenda oriented teaching happens these days. So what's the problem? Again like I said, now a days kids are not afraid to voice their opinions. I certainly was not and still not.

I'm trying to piece together how today's education system is so horrible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by Impulse88 Impulse88 wrote:

Why is every parents, who home school, republican?
 
wow... Another huge generalization... Sorry, I couldn't get past the first line...
 
Here is a nice video interlude showing some anti-socialized homeschoolers.
 
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 3:09pm
FE quotes youtube more than my priest quoted the bible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 3:10pm
i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 

Same here. My school offered a great selection of courses and the teachers were ready to help any student willing to learn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 

Same here. My school offered a great selection of courses and the teachers were ready to help any student willing to learn.


For the most part, same here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gravdigr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 4:01pm
ok, I did not read all 7 pages of posts, not enough time.  I will say this, had I been homeschooled I would have hated it, though I would not have known what I was missing so maybe not...

I can also Say after 12 years of school and no college a person can still do well for themself.  You just have to be intelligent (intelligent meaning you have the capability to learn from experiance as well as books *cough*homeschool*cough*) and have common sense.

I have nothing more than a 12th grade education and an co-owner of a monument company with my wife, run and dig graves in 2 cemeteries.  Taught myself welding, fabricating, auto mechanics, hydraulics, glassblowing, how to build, diagnose, and repair computers and computer networks, carpentry, plumbing, roofing....basically anything I needed to know.  I'm brushing up on my spanish (lived 7 years in florida) and will be learning french, german, russian and possibly mandarin chinese using a popular computer program.

What I'm trying to say is a child can learn in any environment as long as he/she is given the proper tools from their PARENTS.  My mother had me so far ahead at first grade I could've skipped 2 grades, because she taught me how to learn, and taught me to enjoy learning.  Back then there was no intrawebthingie, I had a 200lb stack of encyclopedia brittanica books.  I'd ask her a question about something and she would tell me to look it up.  Now with the answer to virtually any question at our fingertips...man I wish I had that back then.  But I digress, nowadays parents do not have the time to be one on one with their children at a young age and teach them how to learn, the kids go to school and instead of learning they are memorizing (there is a difference).  One can memorize a circuit schematic, and possibly fix a broken component, but did you learn the schematic, they theory of WHY it works?  Why is the best question a 2 year old can ever ask, because it leads to understanding.  Now does that mean you should just keep your kid at home?  Not in my opinion, because home cannot provide enough life experience.  You prepare your child and give them the tools they need, then you gotta send them out of the nest so they can interact with other children in a social setting daily.  Social skills are important and without them a child can turn into an introvert.

I am rambling now...it happens.


Edited by Gravdigr - 31 July 2009 at 4:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 

Same here. My school offered a great selection of courses and the teachers were ready to help any student willing to learn.


For the most part, same here. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:


Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:


Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 
Same here. My school offered a great selection of courses and the teachers were ready to help any student willing to learn.
For the most part, same here. 


an A+ certified one, back when that actually meant something.

it wasn't the teachers fault, it was the structure/curriculum/etc.

i went all the way through AP physics with an A, doing all my homework in class, not studying, i skipped the project that was too large to do out of class... etc.

i barely tried all the way through school, didn't have too. i took advanced classes, they still weren't challenging.

took trig at the community colledge my junior year - even that wasn't any better. i woke up, went striaght to class, and was nodding off throughout the whole thing. studied a total of about 10 minutes before each of the three tests, didn't do homework(wasn't required) got a B.

only class i -ever- had in public school that was interesting, fun and challenging was 6th grade math. it was the advanced class, the teacher handed us our books at the beginning of the year and told us to find a safe place to put them where they wouldn't get damaged, because he didn't use them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:


Excellent example of why outsourcing is not necessarily bad.  (In the long term at least; in the short term, it still sucks to be the person who had their job outsourced.)
 
Indeed it is.
 
As much as I would like to take credit for it, that is basically a simplified version of an example used by Adam Smith in chapter 2 of The Wealth of Nations.
 
In fact, just about everything I have posted about economics in this thread is cribbed directly from that same book.

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Gravdigr Gravdigr wrote:


I have nothing more than a 12th grade education and an co-owner of a monument company with my wife, run and dig graves in 2 cemeteries.  Taught myself welding, fabricating, auto mechanics, hydraulics, glassblowing, how to build, diagnose, and repair computers and computer networks, carpentry, plumbing, roofing....basically anything I needed to know.  I'm brushing up on my spanish (lived 7 years in florida) and will be learning french, german, russian and possibly mandarin chinese using a popular computer program.
 
Good for you.  Well earned.
 
Now, here is the question:  Did your public schooling contribute to your success?  Do you think you would have had an easier time after school if you had less Shakespeare and more welding/mechanics?  Or was the Shakespeare helpful?
 
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by procarbinefreak procarbinefreak wrote:

i want to know what kind of crappy schools you guys are visiting.  my public high school was amazing.  i didn't get any "agendas" from teachers, I got an excellent education and also had a great experience. 
My main issue with High School education is: What can you do with it? To me it seems like you should have at least some listed skill with your HS diploma so you can get a job with just that diploma and a bit of common sense.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 July 2009 at 7:17pm
I went to a blue ribbon school to be honest...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Impulse88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2009 at 6:14am
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

FE quotes youtube more than my priest quoted the bible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 August 2009 at 10:51am
Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:

I went to a blue ribbon school to be honest...



Must resist . . .



. . . oh what the heck . . .



Is that a school where everyone gets a blue ribbon for being "special?"
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