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adrenalinejunky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

So why can lawyers charge so much and it is not OK for Doctors or drug designers/researcher to do the same for thier "speciality"?


who said they cant?

there are doctors who don't take medicare or medicaid, there are even doctors who don't take insurance at all.

furthermore socialized medicine wouldn't cover everything, just as court appointed lawyers don't.

if you might be going to jail, you are entitled to a court appointed lawyer

if your health is at risk, you would be entitled to covered medical treatement.

if your suing someone, you are not entitled to a court appointed lawyer

if you are getting breast implants, you would not be entitled to have the goverment pay for it.

seems like a relatively parrallel comparison to me.
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Mack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Tricare
Medicaid
Medicare


3 government run healthcare options. Need I even say how these are run?
 
Why yes, you do.
 


I'll answer for Linus on the one I have experience with; Tricare sucks.*




*If it this makes it sound like I might be a little bitter, it's only because I am.


Edited by Mack - 29 July 2009 at 7:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 7:48pm
Peter, take my anecdotal stories for just that-- andecdotes. If you talk to someone in the private sector who deals with that crap, you'll hear much the same things from them. The higher up you go, the more you'll hear, and the closer you get to the actual billing group, the more you'll hear.

It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate. You can extrapolate how the government handles a very limited amount of people that those 2 programs have, and see for yourself what would happen with 300+ million are under their direction.



Again, the bad side is only visible to those who deal with it everyday.

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Peter Parker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Peter, take my anecdotal stories for just that-- andecdotes. If you talk to someone in the private sector who deals with that crap, you'll hear much the same things from them. The higher up you go, the more you'll hear, and the closer you get to the actual billing group, the more you'll hear.
 
Oh, don't worry - I have heard plenty of providers tell me about the pain of dealing with Medicare/Medicaid (less familiar with Tricare).  Your complaints are not new to me.  And sometimes providers elect to stop working with Medicare/Medicaid due to the PITA factor - but all too often that "PITA factor" turns out to be more a matter of the amount of the fee than the timing of the fee...
 
But - and this is one of the main points I am trying to make - those same providers also tell me that while Medicare et al can be a pain to deal with, the REAL pain is from having to maintain separate records and procedures for a multitude of different insurance companies and agencies.  Doctor offices and hospitals have huge billing staffs and spend vast amounts of time and money just to manage the various reimbursement schemes.
 
Now guess how big the billing departments are in a true socialized system...

Quote It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate. You can extrapolate how the government handles a very limited amount of people that those 2 programs have
 
Well you could, but that would be really silly, seeing as how there is a lot more data available.  But yeah, I guess you could just pick two data points and ignore the rest.
 
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:14pm
I'm unfamiliar with the military's healthcare system.

Is it good or bad?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate.


And right there. It COULD work, but theres work to be done, and a better system needs to be put in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate.


And right there. It COULD work, but theres work to be done, and a better system needs to be put in place.


Yes, they COULD work, but as of right now, they don't, and as such, why risk it for the whole population of the US?

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adrenalinejunky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate.


And right there. It COULD work, but theres work to be done, and a better system needs to be put in place.


i think there is an echo in here.

it only seems to affect choopie though. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


It's not a disdain for Medicare and Medicaid themsevles--- it's how they operate.


And right there. It COULD work, but theres work to be done, and a better system needs to be put in place.


Yes, they COULD work, but as of right now, they don't, and as such, why risk it for the whole population of the US?

So you're in favor of keeping a very broken system because you're too lazy to fix it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:48pm
Where did I say I wanted to keep any form of federal government run healthcare?


I thought I spent the last 9 pages fighting that?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Where did I say I wanted to keep any form of federal government run healthcare?


I thought I spent the last 9 pages fighting that?
 
 
 
Government RUN, or government FUNDED...?
 
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:52pm
Yeah I wasn't just talking about the government run portion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

So you're telling me Medicare and Medicaid are well run organizations?



I never said they were stingy. I said they dictate what they pay, when they pay, and how they pay, which in turn hurts not only the companies expecting payment, but the employees that did the work. Now imagine this not happening just for SOME people, but every single person, at every single hospital, nursing home, ambulance company, fire department and long-term care facility.

Just because it 'saves money' does not mean it's efficient or run well. It's quite obvious to all those with regular dealings in it, that they are not.







]
To me that sounds like an argument against a fee for service pay system and favoring a flat rate reimbursement that would stop doctors from running redundant, expensive, slow or otherwise useless tests.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

To me that sounds like an argument against a fee for service pay system and favoring a flat rate reimbursement that would stop doctors from running redundant, expensive, slow or otherwise useless tests.
 
Yeah, the whole per-procedure reimbursement structure of the US system is another of the main issues.  Somehow we have managed to mostly avoid it so far.
 
But man is that an awful arrangement.  Creates unnecessary paperwork, encourages bad medicine, and runs up costs.
 
Arguably this is (IMO) the single greatest contributor to high healthcare costs.
 
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:


But man is that an awful arrangement.  Creates unnecessary paperwork, encourages bad medicine, and runs up costs.
We need a per disease payment with bonuses if cured IMO.

The bonuses that doctors receive in the UK for actually improving their patients overall health (quitting smoking, loosing weight, etc) is one of the strongest part of the UK NHS system.


I did a paper two years ago on the different types of socialized medicine throughout the world. By researching the differences, and boy were there differences, it definitely opened up to the multiple possibilities to health care reform. It also showed the ignorance of the American populace on the issue since a majority thinks a public health option means the gov will own the hospitals like the British system (yes I know there still are private ones).

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

To me that sounds like an argument against a fee for service pay system and favoring a flat rate reimbursement that would stop doctors from running redundant, expensive, slow or otherwise useless tests.
 
Yeah, the whole per-procedure reimbursement structure of the US system is another of the main issues.  Somehow we have managed to mostly avoid it so far.
 
But man is that an awful arrangement.  Creates unnecessary paperwork, encourages bad medicine, and runs up costs.
 
Arguably this is (IMO) the single greatest contributor to high healthcare costs.
 
 


Yea in my health econ course we talked about how insurance causes people to seek medical care even when it isn't really necessary. It also encourages doctors to indulge these people, and do things that cost money and aren't really important.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2009 at 3:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2009 at 10:04am
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2009 at 11:35am
Is that supposed to be an argument against universal healthcare or just an agreement video for people who already hate it?


Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2009 at 11:38am
It's pretty obvious that it is neither one.  It was presented as evidence that one of the goals of the current administration is to replace private healthcare completely with public healthcare.
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