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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

1.  "Global warming" is a correct and accurate term, but it has fallen out of favor because people - either out of ignorance or obstinacy - incorrectly understood it to mean that it meant warming in every local microclimate.  "Climate change" is merely a sop to the people who don't or won't understand that "global" doesn't mean "here."  Either term is usable with the appropriate explanation.
 
And yet, blaming mans effects on the planet ignores the history of our planet... Was the ice age caused by dino gas? Maybe the planet cycles... Temps get warmer, then they get cooler, mans attempts to eliminate Gods power to do as he wishes with the earth and blame themselves for the changes is laughable. And the "science" is shady at best.
 
2.  While predictions of specific climate changes are many and varied, there is one theme that is pretty constant:  increased precipitation in most places.  I am not saying that the rainy summer in NY is the result of global warming, but I will say that most models in place do in fact predict exactly that type of change for places like NY.
 
3.  FE:  Would you feel differently about the various federal efforts to limit emissions if the economic impacts were only minimally negative in the short term, and positive in the long-term?
 
Forcing changes that have ANY economic impact during (as Senior leader Obama stated) "the worst economic conditions since the great depression", is STUPID. Use the pseudo science scam when the economy is rolling, and people have actual jobs to pay for the major increases (the real reason they "need" the money is to pay for the huge deficit, and give them more money to waste).
 
4.  And I am digging the tree-hugger economics in FE's sig.
 
I enjoy the stupidity of that line... I got it from a FSC vendor we use... We looked into becoming FSC certified, as many "green" customers want their vendors using it (until the economy fell off a cliff, and we have gotten ZERO requests for it since January...)
 
We would have to pay around $10,000 and an annual fee to have the certification. And ZERO changes to what we already do, (recycle our paper waste, ink waste, and use enviromentally friendly press wash, and chemistry...) Iike most "green" stuff, its all about someone making money.
 
The sooner the youth realizes this the better off our country will be. They only care about making Green from the green movement...
 
We have no real effect on the environment. One volcano causes more "damage" to the environment than anything we all (us on this board) do in our lifetimes...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
We have no real effect on the environment. One volcano causes more "damage" to the environment than anything we all (us on this board) do in our lifetimes...
 
I was going to respond line by line to this post, but when I got to this I realized I didn't have to. 
 
Clue:  anybody talking about how volcanos put out this vast amount of CO2, or otherwise causes this amazing amount of environmental impact, is either (a) intentionally lying, (b) intentionally avoid the truth, (c) selectively accepting whatever "facts" he likes without any investigation at all, or (d) all of the above.
 
Next you were going to talk about global cooling and acid rain, right?
 
What should clue you in to the real "conspiracy" here is how these claims, which have been repeatedly shown to be completely false, keep getting brought up by the supposed leaders of the "global warming is bunk" crowd.
 
When somebody who is supposed to be expert keeps repeating lies and falsehoods, you have to question their credibility.  The fact that this volcano canard still comes up on a regular basis is powerful evidence of the intentional recirculation of misinformation.
 
Critical thinking is your friend, and Google can help.
 


Edited by Peter Parker - 14 July 2009 at 1:31pm

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:34pm
Actually, I don't need google to know that "global warming" is a scam...
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Actually, I don't need google to know that "global warming" is a scam...
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ah, yes, because a short list of dissenters is more conclusive than actual science...
 
And did you notice the "mainstream" part?  That means, pretty much by definition, that the list of people supporting the "mainstream" assessment outnumber your paltry little list - by a lot.
 
So all your list tells me, even if I take it at face value without looking up individuals listed, is that most relevant scientists in fact SUPPORT the current assessment.
 
Thanks for arguing my point for me.
 
 
But in any event, nice dodge.  Now try google and volcanos.
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:52pm
*grabs some popcorn* It's about damn time we had one of these threads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by IMPULS3. IMPULS3. wrote:

*grabs some popcorn* It's about damn time we had one of these threads.
PSN Tag: AmmoLord
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by ammolord ammolord wrote:

Originally posted by IMPULS3. IMPULS3. wrote:

*grabs some popcorn* It's about damn time we had one of these threads.
 
Don't hold your breath - FE is offline.
 
In any event, I encourage everybody to google "volcano CO2" or anything like that.  What you will get is dozens of links to very reputable sources (US Geological Survey, several top universities), all of which will tell you the actual undisputed fact that combined volcanic activity puts out less than 1% of the CO2 put out by human activity.  Less than ONE PERCENT.
 
Yet the loonie-right blogosphere (as well as Rush and pals) has been regurgitating this outright lie for years.  Nobody even knows for sure where this urban legend started.  The complete lack of any source whatsover, the incredible ease of debunking - that has not stopped the deniers from keeping this lie alive.
 
Hence my point:  Anybody who tells you about volcanos and CO2 is either lying or hasn't bothered to spend even 15 seconds fact-checking, and you should feel free to be VERY skeptical of everything else they have to say.
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:21pm
typical... Discredit "pending" sources before they are even posted...
 
Very "partial" of you and typical of liberal spin...
 
I wish I had more time, but I gotta get downtown to pick up a job...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

typical... Discredit "pending" sources before they are even posted...
 
 
/random?
 
What is this "pending" source that I discredited, and what does that have to do with anything at all? 
 
 

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

...mans attempts to eliminate Gods power to do as he wishes with the earth and blame themselves for the changes is laughable.
 
To those of us in the arguing bidness, this is what we call an "argument from incredulity."  Basically it goes like this:  "ZOMG THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE!!!11!!"
 
Not a very persuasive argument form.
 
And in this case doubly so - as every one of us can look out the window and see how effective man has been at affecting the environment.  A claim that human activity "cannot possibly" overcome the forces of nature flies in the face of thousands of years of human activity that has done exactly that.
 
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

Forcing changes that have ANY economic impact [now] is STUPID. 
 
 
This is ridiculously simplistic.  If we raise the average household utility bill by $50/year, and in the process lay the foundation for a new stronger economy - it's a no-brainer.  Of course we make that investment.
 
Everything has an impact.  The challenge is balancing and choosing.  Saying we should do nothing that would have any impact would prohibit any action at all.
 


Edited by Peter Parker - 14 July 2009 at 2:49pm

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

understand that "global" doesn't mean "here."


Um doesn't global mean everywhere?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

understand that "global" doesn't mean "here."


Um doesn't global mean everywhere?


Global means "on average across the earth." The only way the world would cool or heat equally at all points is if it was made of a single substance and the world was a perfectly spherical, non-rotating object with equal outside influence (solar radiation, for example) from all sides. Because the earth isn't perfectly uniform; and because of things like convection and jet streams and ocean currents and differences in heat absorption between water and land and the fact that the heat that matters is measured not only on the surface but under the ocean and in the atmosphere, you aren't going to get equal heating all over the earth. In fact, these attributes are what actually makes some places colder while other places are getting hotter.

tc(onfusing);dr, what is happening in your city in no way reflects what is happening to the world as a whole.


Edited by Tolgak - 14 July 2009 at 7:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:29pm
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

What you will get is dozens of links to very reputable sources (US Geological Survey, several top universities), all of which will tell you the actual undisputed fact that combined volcanic activity puts out less than 1% of the CO2 put out by human activity.  Less than ONE PERCENT.


Pffft.  I put out more greenhouse gas than that after a good bowl of chili.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

been busy...

 
Watching our business fall apart from all this government "intervention"... My customers (large corporate, all the way down to small business) are afraid to spend any money as they are terrified to what is happening since Obama took over.
 
 


You probably also blame Obama for the state of the firearm and ammunition market, don't you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

understand that "global" doesn't mean "here."


Um doesn't global mean everywhere?


Global means "on average across the earth." The only way the world would cool or heat equally at all points is if it was made of a single substance and the world was a perfectly spherical, non-rotating object with equal outside influence (solar radiation, for example) from all sides. Because the earth isn't perfectly uniform; and because of things like convection and jet streams and ocean currents and differences in heat absorption between water and land and the fact that the heat that matters is measured not only on the surface but under the ocean and in the atmosphere, you aren't going to get equal heating all over the earth. In fact, these attributes are what actually makes some places colder while other places are getting hotter.

tc(onfusing);dr, what is happening in your city in no way reflects what is happening to the world as a whole.


So where are the numbers of global warming?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

been busy...

 
Watching our business fall apart from all this government "intervention"... My customers (large corporate, all the way down to small business) are afraid to spend any money as they are terrified to what is happening since Obama took over.
 
 


You probably also blame Obama for the state of the firearm and ammunition market, don't you. 
 
I do. But not directly. People think he's gonna do something, and because of that, they all flood the outdoor stores, buying whatever their grubby hands can grab, thus inflating the market. Thanks to delicious capitalism, prices are raised to quell the demand or squeeze a few extra bucks out of it.
 
The irony is there's not a whole lot Obama can do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

So where are the numbers of global warming?
 
As in "how many global warmings?"

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:10am
I would ask anyone who is serious about thinking, and wants to understand what is at stake to read "red hot lies".
 
 
It will lay out the facts, with all of the references that prove the true agenda of "green" activists.
 
Remember how the world was going to end because of the ozone layer in our atmosphere (another one claimed to be caused by mans use of hairspray...) Well that crisis passed, and they needed another to generate income.
 
Global warming (which since the earth is now cooling, they have to change the name...) is the next scam.
 
Or you can just believe the hype like peter. Who would never read a book like "red hot lies" as it might just affect his liberal mind (the same mind that thinks it is "moderate"...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2009 at 8:29am
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