Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Somalian Pirates

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
Poll Question: What would you do to control this problem?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
0 [0.00%]
9 [28.13%]
20 [62.50%]
1 [3.13%]
2 [6.25%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
IMPULS3. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested

Joined: 07 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 579
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:14am
Originally posted by Peter Parker Peter Parker wrote:

I wouldn't worry about the laws.  Blackwater could set up base in a nearby country - maybe, say, Somalia - and hire themselves out to passing ships.  They could offer protection, just to make sure that nothin' bad happens, you know what I'm sayin'?  They would just need a small monthly fee.
 
How do you know they aren't doing this already Wink
Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:45am
Letters of Marque. They are still legal if handed out.

Add a couple of Q ships and you are set.

KBK
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:55am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Letters of Marque. They are still legal if handed out.

Add a couple of Q ships and you are set.

KBK


Except that most major powers signed the Declaration of Paris, or agreed to abide by its rules after the fact (like the US), Letters of Marque work.  The only problem is, if (and that's a big "if") the privateers actually removed the Somalian pirates, they'd just be creating a niche for themselves to take over, since they'd have lost their jobs.

And since Q-Ships are essentially illegal for private shipping lines to operate (for obvious reasons), they might have a bit of trouble with that too.

Just like any other problem, it needs to be solved at its source.  Park a fleet off the coast for two weeks and bombard it until they get the message.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
oldsoldier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Frequent target of infantile obsessives

Joined: 10 June 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:16am
"Q" ships are not illegal, since they are considered commisioned warships in the navy that operates them. So to arm a merchantman and then commision it in the Royal Navy, or US Navy is legal under the rules of war at sea. And as long as the national ensign is flown before firing, all is now legal, and the warship can now engage. A fast firing 20mm or 40mm mounted in conexes on the deck, and openeing upon the approach of the pirates fast boats would be an interesting exercise. And then go after the control ship (which is usually visable on the horizon) with 3 to 5in naval guns, would make the pirates "think" more on going after a "merchant".
Back to Top
Benjichang View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
I pwned Leroy Jenkins!

Joined: 03 January 2004
Location: R'lyeh
Status: Offline
Points: 12518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 10:29am
Japan should send some ninjas over to settle the debate once and for all.
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:02am
I am sure if one of my family members was the one being ransomed, I might feel differently, but I think there should be no negotiations with pirates.  If you don't pay them, they will go away. I would also agree on relentless bombing of the Somalian coast. I can't beleive with todays technology that we don't have a clue where these guys are based.
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:08am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

"Q" ships are not illegal, since they are considered commisioned warships in the navy that operates them. So to arm a merchantman and then commision it in the Royal Navy, or US Navy is legal under the rules of war at sea. And as long as the national ensign is flown before firing, all is now legal, and the warship can now engage. A fast firing 20mm or 40mm mounted in conexes on the deck, and openeing upon the approach of the pirates fast boats would be an interesting exercise. And then go after the control ship (which is usually visable on the horizon) with 3 to 5in naval guns, would make the pirates "think" more on going after a "merchant".


Which is exactly why they are illegal -- because they are not commissioned warships.

It's not like these pirates are hard to track down, people just aren't trying, because they don't want to go on Somali turf.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:07pm
Except the original Q ships WHERE comissioned war ships. The Liberty ships weren't.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 09 April 2009 at 12:09pm
Back to Top
ParielIsBack View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
future target of fratricide

Joined: 13 October 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3782
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Except the original Q ships WHERE comissioned war ships. The Liberty ships weren't.

KBK


...what aren't you getting?  Seriously.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

I'm saying that those things do not exist in the navy of any current power in the region, and that the private companies whose ships that are being attacked are not allowed to create Q-Ships, due to massive legal issues.
BU Engineering 2012
Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:33pm
Ok, I'd missed your point. I thought you were still talking about the original ones.

KBK
Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:40pm
I also don't see the point about the legalities of it. Piracy isn't legal either.

Also, and this is the sticking point, the USA never signed the Paris Decleration, and IIRC never have ratified it. They did say they will stick to it, but haven't ever actually signed it.
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

I also don't see the point about the legalities of it. Piracy isn't legal either.

.


Murder isn't legal, but it's illegal to kill a murderer.
Que pasa?


Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 1:02pm
BWhahahahahaha.

No it isn't.

It is perfectly legal in just about every country in the world to kill a murderer.

KBK
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

BWhahahahahaha.

No it isn't.

It is perfectly legal in just about every country in the world to kill a murderer.

KBK


Not the point.

There are places where it is illegal to just kill a murderer because he killed someone. Your BWAHAHAHAHA is not needed.


WARNING: WIKIPEDIA

"58 countries maintain the death penalty in both law and practice. (Also lists the Palestinian Authority)
90 have abolished it. (Also lists the Cook Islands & Niue)
10 retain it for crimes committed in exceptional circumstances (such as in time of war).
36 permit its use for ordinary crimes, but have not used it for at least 10 years or is under a moratorium"
Que pasa?


Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 1:23pm
There are very few countries that hold self defence illegal. While there are some with stickier wickets than the USA, generally if you believe your life is in danger, you can defend yourself.

There are even fewer places that hold it illegal to kill your attacker if he has already attacked you and you are literaly fighting for your life.

The death penalty is only one way murderers are killed. There is also the fact that in many countries the police carry firearms and are allowed to use them, should the need arise.

Thus in many many places you are, legally, allowed to kill murderers and would be murderers.

Thus,
Quote
Murder isn't legal, but it's illegal to kill a murderer.
= Bwahahahaha more than any statement made on this board in ages.

KBK
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 1:35pm
Explain to me how that is a funny statement?

If someone kills a person, you are not just allowed to shoot them in the back of the head. What the hell are you talking about?

Did I say anything about self defense? No. Did I say anything about them getting the death sentence in the original statement? No.

Did I say anything about a cop shooting someone out of necessity in my original statement? No.

I merely said it is illegal to kill a murderer(which it is) because that is still murder. This was to show your logic of "the pirates are breaking the law why don't the merchant ships just break it too?" doesn't really work.

I am not even saying I don't agree with that, because I do. I feel they should start carrying guns, legal or not.


Edited by jmac3 - 09 April 2009 at 1:36pm
Que pasa?


Back to Top
Kayback View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Ask me about my Kokido

Joined: 25 July 2002
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 4028
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 1:55pm
I was laughing at the statement that it is illegal to kill murderers when it patently isn't.

It is illegal to execute them out of hand, unless you have permission to do this, like in an execution. Which makes it legal again.

My statement about not worrying about the rules is I seriously doubt the pirates are signatries of the treaty either. In the same way the Geneva Convention and the Hague treaty don't apply to insurgents and terrorists.

It would be illegal, internationally, for countries like the UK to sign Letters of Marque for privateers to go prey on the cimmercial shipping of other countries, but I don't see how that applies to sinking pirates that are attacking you.

KBK
Back to Top
Mack View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Has no impulse! control

Joined: 13 January 2004
Location: 2nd Circle
Status: Offline
Points: 9815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 2:13pm
This poll needs an "all of the above" option.
Back to Top
Peter Parker View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2003
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 998
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

I was laughing at the statement that it is illegal to kill murderers when it patently isn't.
 
Well that's just false - at least under the laws of the US and most of the Commonwealth.
 
It is just as illegal (or legal) to kill a murderer as it is to kill anybody else.  A person's status as a murderer does not change their status as a victim if a crime is committed against them.
 
Now, you are permitted to defend yourself and others, using the appropriate level of force, and I guess you are more likely to encounter a situation where lethal force is justified when dealing with a murderer, but it is the self-defense of the moment that may give you the right to kill, not any prior acts committed by your attacker.
 
For instance, if you just watched a guy execute three people and now he is headed for you, I think we can all safely assume that you are legally permitted to use lethal force, as you are now in reasonable and immediate fear for your life.  But that lethal force is permitted because you are about to get killed, not because your would-be killer just killed three other people.

"E Pluribus Unum" does not mean "Every man for himself".

Pop Quiz: What do all the Framers of the Constitution have in common?
Back to Top
IMPULS3. View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested

Joined: 07 November 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 579
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMPULS3. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2009 at 3:05pm

We will see more and more vigalantes.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.