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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obnoxious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2009 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

obnoxious you missed the point of his post entirely.


Well then, perhaps someone should clarify on his point, rather than point it out because obviously I didn't figure it out the first time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obnoxious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 12:24am
This is pretty interesting.

Quote During the dreary dry days of Prohibition, some Americans were prepared to go to any lengths to get a beer. Not least the nation's doctors - not for themselves, of course, but for their patients, some of whom were in desperate need of a drink. Faced with restrictions on medicinal whisky and a ban on prescribing beer, even doctors who never touched the stuff and didn't believe there were any benefits from booze joined the battle for "medical beer". Many didn't care about the beer: this fight was about a doctor's right to decide what was best for their patients


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026801.900-when-doctors-battled-for-medical-beer.html?full=true

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical3.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 12:55am
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

IMO the government is not making money off it, but plenty of private groups are.
Excuse this posts if it doesn't fit in but 19 pages is too much to read and this post caught my eye. Now From the other posts I belive your reffering to "illegal" MJ which I highly doubt the goverment has there hands on. The goverment wouldn't drain all that money into the war on drugs just to turn around and get a cut from the drugs.

However I was watching this show on CNBC I think it was, where they interviewed a dispenserary(sp) owner I guess you would call him. One of the questions the lady asked the owner was how much does the goverment get out of the taxes or whatever. The owner replied something like anywhere from 300K to 600K a year just from that one place in cali. Now imagine all the "legal" dope shops across the country giving that much in taxes to the goverment a year... they are definetly banking some cash of MJ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

IMO the government is not making money off it, but plenty of private groups are.
Excuse this posts if it doesn't fit in but 19 pages is too much to read and this post caught my eye. Now From the other posts I belive your reffering to "illegal" MJ which I highly doubt the goverment has there hands on. The goverment wouldn't drain all that money into the war on drugs just to turn around and get a cut from the drugs.

However I was watching this show on CNBC I think it was, where they interviewed a dispenserary(sp) owner I guess you would call him. One of the questions the lady asked the owner was how much does the goverment get out of the taxes or whatever. The owner replied something like anywhere from 300K to 600K a year just from that one place in cali. Now imagine all the "legal" dope shops across the country giving that much in taxes to the goverment a year... they are definetly banking some cash of MJ.

That's state government in Cali though. Remember, in the eyes of the federal government, marijuana is still illegal no matter what name you give it.

Then again who recalls all the DEA raids on the dispensaries? In those raids the federal government took the product (weed and edibles), patient info, and money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

IMO the government is not making money off it, but plenty of private groups are.


Excuse this posts if it doesn't fit in but 19 pages is too much to read and this post caught my eye. Now From the other posts I belive your reffering to "illegal" MJ which I highly doubt the goverment has there hands on. The goverment wouldn't drain all that money into the war on drugs just to turn around and get a cut from the drugs. However I was watching this show on CNBC I think it was, where they interviewed a dispenserary(sp) owner I guess you would call him. One of the questions the lady asked the owner was how much does the goverment get out of the taxes or whatever. The owner replied something like anywhere from 300K to 600K a year just from that one place in cali. Now imagine all the "legal" dope shops across the country giving that much in taxes to the goverment a year... they are definetly banking some cash of MJ.
That's state government in Cali though. Remember, in the eyes of the federal government, marijuana is still illegal no matter what name you give it.Then again who recalls all the DEA raids on the dispensaries? In those raids the federal government took the product (weed and edibles), patient info, and money.


At least those are (apparently) stopping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:19pm
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

Choop (and others) - I have no intention of spending 90 minutes watching a movie about pot.  The effort required would far exceed my care quota for this subject matter.
 
But I will go out on a limb and guess at the contents of the movie (feel free to correct/complete):
 
- Hemp is a totally awesome plant with many uses
- MJ was banned for economic reasons relating to hemp, not for any drug concerns
- MJ/THC is an awesome drug
- Synthetic THC just doesn't work as well
- The pharmaceutical companies are conspiring to keep MJ illegal
 
Pretty close?  If so, then I have heard it all before, and am not impressed.
 
 
Well, the mocking worked, and I just finished watching the thing on YouTube.
 
My summary above was spot-on, except that the movie works in some drug-concerns for banning as well (built around racism and fascism, of course).
 
The movie also has the normal dose of exaggeration, strawmen, celebrities and random people put forth as if they are experts, low-level flunkies declaring what goes on at the highest levels, rhetorical questions used in place of actual information, and so forth.  Do I really care what Joe Rogan thinks of private prisons?
 
Good production values, but all in all it is just another piece of annoying propaganda.
 
So thanks for wasting my time, guys.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:21pm
Anytime
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:23pm
Actual quote from the movie (as best I can recall):
 
Narrator:  Can you think of any other medicine that offers as many benefits that marijuana does?
 
Some expert guy: (long pause)  No.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:24pm
Hey I totally agree with you, but you shouldn't just believe everything anyone says in any medium. Have to take it with a grain of salt, just like I said about Zeitgeist...and any documentary like this ever. But it does get you thinking, and brings up some interesting points, which to me, is the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

But it ... brings up some interesting points, which to me, is the point.
 
That it does.  My problem with bits like this is the presentation.  Just make the argument and give me the facts and sources.  I don't need to hear the political views of some stipper/stoner in Canada.
 
Ultimately, after 90ish minutes of movie, I still cannot identify a single actual argument made.  As propaganda often does, it contradicted itself on numerous occasions, and otherwise took the standard shotgun approach.  Was it arguing in favor of legalization of marijuana for medical use or for general use?  Was it arguing in favor of more regulation of tobacco?  Was it arguing against the privatization of the prison system?  And so forth.
 
Disorganized random semi-arguments are powerful for conveying a sentiment, but ultimately do not actually make a supported point.  I kept waiting for "A and B, therefore C."  Didn't happen.  Instead I got "here are a bunch of awesome things about MJ, and bunch of bad things about tobacco and politicians and drug companies.  Oh yeah, and nuclear power is bad too.  You figure it out."  To me, that is not persuasive.  Just annoying.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gh0st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 1:52pm
NICE pb!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obnoxious Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

Was it arguing in favor of legalization of marijuana for medical use or for general use?


In a way Rambino, I feel this is what our argument actually comes down to. You see medicinal marijuana as a sham because marijuana is trying to be marketed as any old pharmaceutical that would have to adhere to FDA level scrutiny.

My
entire argument is based off of basic tenents that would allow for the eventual legalization of marijuana in the United States. I posted that article earlier about "medical beer" and saw that the parallels between the situation then and the current one are more than uncanny. I fully agree with you that marijuana is not a legitimite "medicine" by our societial standards. I do, however, fully believe that it has therapuetic and medicinal properties that should not be prohibited from being fully utilized by the general population. I personally feel this starts with the patient community.

Another distinction in our arguments lies in our views about prescriptions. Our most optimistic resolution seems to be the same: that marijuana will be legal and prescriptions will not be necessary, and that doctors would recommend or suggest its use rather. My stance on the fact that it is only being pushed in the medical field for sick people is that it is their only possible means of procuring it. You see this as a loophole. It is a matter of perspective.

My inclinations tell me that we share more similarities in discourse than differences. I simply wish to push forward the medical marijuana agenda as a step towards general decriminalization, and dare I say, legalization. You see this is a farce, which I will acknowledge with sincerity is a perfectly grounded thing to say. I see it as progression.


Edited by obnoxious - 03 April 2009 at 9:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tical3.0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 April 2009 at 11:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pb125 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2009 at 4:01am
Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

Kushed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The eMike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2009 at 4:06am
Originally posted by pb125 pb125 wrote:

Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

Kushed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2009 at 8:17am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Zeitgeist...and any documentary


I think you owe the entire documentary genre of film an apology for that implication . . . that was uncalled for

Originally posted by obnoxious obnoxious wrote:


I fully agree with you that marijuana is not a legitimite "medicine" by our societial standards.

. . .

My inclinations tell me that we share more similarities in discourse than differences. I simply wish to push forward the medical marijuana agenda as a step towards general decriminalization, and dare I say, legalization. You see this is a farce, which I will acknowledge with sincerity is a perfectly grounded thing to say. I see it as progression.



I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the FDA and AMA don't support drugs for political reasons.

I think they focus more on, I dunno, genuine medical use?


Edited by Darur - 04 April 2009 at 8:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2009 at 9:53am
Darur: If the FDA wasn't playing politics and blocking research, cannabis would not be a schedule 1 drug.
At worst it belongs in schedule 2, seeing as it does have some level of therepeutic value (how much is arguable).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 April 2009 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-04-03-obama-town-hall-meeting_N.htm
 
 
Obama: Afghanistan a 'joint problem'


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