Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Medical Marijuana

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 19>
Author
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Zata Zata wrote:

I don't think legal marijuana is any worse than alcohol being legal.


And it probably isn't. But it's still illegal.

Just because there's a 'stupid law' doesn't really give you the right to break it. In fact, breaking a law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing.

Speed limit? That's dumb. I can go 80 safely, so I will. - It doesn't work that way.
Obey the law, and do your damnedest to legitimately CHANGE it. There's where your results will come from.




Back to Top
Benjichang View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
I pwned Leroy Jenkins!

Joined: 03 January 2004
Location: R'lyeh
Status: Offline
Points: 12518
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 11:17am
I know its hard....but try to be civil now and again.


Edited by Reb Cpl - 26 March 2009 at 11:50am
Back to Top
FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not a card-carrying member of the DNC

Joined: 14 October 2008
Location: Trails Of Doom
Status: Offline
Points: 4780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

Fail- ABORT
They tremble at my name...
Back to Top
God View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Pull My Finger

Joined: 09 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Just because there's a 'stupid law' doesn't really give you the right to break it. In fact, breaking a law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing. 


I think the American Revolution revolutionists would disagree with you on that one.




Edited by God - 26 March 2009 at 12:31pm
Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 12:49pm
Wow I actually agree with FE on this one, not cool.
 
I actually was a pretty frequent smoker for a while, but as far as the morality involved, I think morals can be attached to anything that's illegal. It's the basic element of society-in fact, I think this goes back to the religious discussion from the past couple of days. Remember, how that you don't need a higher power for morality, because people can be trusted to follow their own moral compass in society? T
 
The pot issue is a funny one, because again, even though I did it, I do feel that as long as it's illegal it is a moral issue. I think if you want to do it, and you can get away with it, more power to you, but you can't deny FE's observation of relative morality, because I do believe it applies here.
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by God God wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Just because there's a 'stupid law' doesn't really give you the right to break it. In fact, breaking a law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing. 


I think the American Revolution revolutionists would disagree with you on that one.




You're talking about the laws that taxed and governed an entire 'nation' of people. These laws were enough to offend the vast, overwhelming majority of the citizens of the American colonies to the point where they activated and did something about it.

Now look at weed. Are you telling me that protesting its illegitimacy  by sneaking around in back alleys and faking medical conditions is paramount going to war over such things as taxation without representation and nation wide exploitation?



 


Back to Top
Eville View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - 5/19, Filter-dodge

Joined: 19 September 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3146
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

`Selective Morality``. Hm, I like how you`re trying to suggest that Marijuana use is inherently immoral.
 
Yeah, I'm funny like that.
 
When something is illegal. I find that doing it anyway is kind of immoral...

are you saying Rosa Parks was immoral for sitting at the front of the bus?
Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

`Selective Morality``. Hm, I like how you`re trying to suggest that Marijuana use is inherently immoral.
 
Yeah, I'm funny like that.
 
When something is illegal. I find that doing it anyway is kind of immoral...

are you saying Rosa Parks was immoral for sitting at the front of the bus?
 
Yup, because the fight for african american rights = scoring some green.
Back to Top
Eville View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - 5/19, Filter-dodge

Joined: 19 September 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 3146
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

`Selective Morality``. Hm, I like how you`re trying to suggest that Marijuana use is inherently immoral.
 
Yeah, I'm funny like that.
 
When something is illegal. I find that doing it anyway is kind of immoral...

are you saying Rosa Parks was immoral for sitting at the front of the bus?
 
Yup, because the fight for african american rights = scoring some green.


it was illegal and she did it anyway

just shows how perfect man's laws are.


Edited by Eville - 26 March 2009 at 1:08pm
Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:08pm

Gah, silly Tippmann forum, double posting me...

I see your point, but it's kind of weak. FE's point was that choosing to smoke weed was relative morality.
 
In other words, my moral compass tells me not to break the law unless it's something I want to do.
 
The civil rights movement was about fighting for rights that were legal for some, not for others. That was inequality. Pot is illegal for everyone, regardless.


Edited by stratoaxe - 26 March 2009 at 1:11pm
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

In other words, my moral compass tells me not to break the law unless it's something I want to do.
 



wut?
Que pasa?


Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:28pm
So driving 60 in a 55 zone, but not smoking pot because it's illegal is selective morality as well right? Guess the morality police never get speeding tickets?
Back to Top
FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not a card-carrying member of the DNC

Joined: 14 October 2008
Location: Trails Of Doom
Status: Offline
Points: 4780
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:34pm
speeding "fines" have little affect on your future (cept higher insurance premiums).
 
Same can't be said for drug convictions, but I'm sure a bunch of dummies on this board will get the "choice" to find that out in the future...
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/471/drug_offenders_lose_federal_benefits
 
 
"Some 15 to 20 million people have been arrested on drug charges and subjected to the tender mercies of the criminal justice system in the past two decades. But, thanks to congressional drug warriors, the punishments drug offenders face often extend far beyond the prison walls or the parole officer's office. A number of federal laws ostensibly aimed at reducing drug use block people with drug convictions from gaining access to federal benefits and services."
 
They tremble at my name...
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:39pm
But you are still breaking the law, correct? So it is still selective morality. So is working jobs under the table and not paying taxes. Technically, it's tax fraud, which is illegal. Selling all this garage sale goodies and not reporting it as income is most likely also technically breaking the law.  A vast majority of us suffer from selective morality, let's all be a little less hypocritical.

Edited by oldpbnoob - 26 March 2009 at 1:40pm
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:40pm
Mixing morality with legality makes one look foolish.

There are many laws which are silly. Often times, breaking laws or rules might be the moral thing to do. Man is an imperfect being,  completely incapable of aligning earthly laws with the more complex idea of morality.

Does smoking weed without a prescription mean you're breaking a law. Yes. Does it mean that you're violating a moral code? It depends. Does your personal morality fall in line with the letter of the man-made law? If so, then yes, smoking weed illegally is immoral.

However, its entirely possible that your moral ideology is a little more complex than that- perhaps you're more concerned with the well being of others, and as long as you're not hurting anyone by disobeying man's silly little laws, then you're good.

To reiterate the point, not all things moral are legal. Not all things legal are moral. Of course it entirely depends on your own definition of morality.

FE might say that smoking weed is illegal, therefore immoral.
I might say that as long as nobody is being harmed by the act, smoking weed is moronic, illegal and wrong- but certainly not immoral.

To each his own interpretation. You'll find out how right you were when your number is up.



Back to Top
God View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Pull My Finger

Joined: 09 May 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 1348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by God God wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by God God wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Just because there's a 'stupid law' doesn't really give you the right to break it. In fact, breaking a law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing. 


I think the American Revolution revolutionists would disagree with you on that one.




You're talking about the laws that taxed and governed an entire 'nation' of people. These laws were enough to offend the vast, overwhelming majority of the citizens of the American colonies to the point where they activated and did something about it.

Now look at weed. Are you telling me that protesting its illegitimacy by sneaking around in back alleys and faking medical conditions is paramount going to war over such things as taxation without representation and nation wide exploitation?
 


My reply had nothing to do with marijuana. I was only responding to you statement of "breaking a law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing." History has determined that your statement, as illustrated in my Revolutionary War example is not always correct. Ghandhi's legally disobedient actions also demonstrates that "breaking a law because you think its moronic" was not the stupidest thing that has ever happened to India.

I was not originally planning on directly comparing legal or illegal marijuana use to the revolutionary war but since you brought it up, yes, sure I can see a valid comparison of the "estimated 100 million Americans aged 12 or older have tried marijuana at least once in their lifetimes, representing 40.6% of the U.S. population in that age group," http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/marijuana_ff.html, as comparable to the "40 percent" of the colonial population which were "actively revolutionist" colonial population, http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h32-rv.htm" going to war over taxation.

The two difference examples (marijuana and revolutionary war ) may be taking different approaches to "protesting the illegitimacy" of the laws that they disagree with but I do not feel that because one is much more extreme in action than the other, that one is any less as civil disobedient than the other. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Again, Ghandi used a third option of civil disobedience to achieve his goal of overturning laws and I would put his accomplishments on par with the results of the Revolutionary war.

The final chapter is not written on the legality of marijuana use in the United States. The people "sneaking out into back alleys and exaggerating illnesses to gain medical marijuana prescriptions" are indeed tactics that are working to challenge the illegal/legal outcome of marijuana because their actions are causing people to discuss the topic on a daily basis. If everyone accepted that marijuana was illegal and because it was illegal, they did not use the substance, it would have a greater chance that it would forever remain illegal because no one was challenging that notion.
Back to Top
agentwhale007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Forum's Vladimir Lenin

Joined: 20 June 2002
Location: GNV FLA
Status: Online
Points: 11696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:48pm
I like this mentality that if you think the legal status of marijuana should be challenged, you must be some kind of reefer madness stoner pothead kid or something. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:49pm
Fair enough. Let me revise my statement with the addition of one word, which should legitimize it.

"Breaking a petty law because you think its moronic is about the stupidest thing I can think of doing"

Trying to tie the American revolution to legalizing marijuana is a stretch no matter how you slice it. I understand the numbers, but in terms of the gravity of the situations at hand- they don't compare. On one hand you're talking about the situations which governed the lives of a (to be) nation. On the other hand, you're talking about a recreational drug. It's like saying that we should legalize heroine because the civil rights movement worked.

And just because the topic is being discussed doesn't really mean that we're any closer to legalizing it. Falsifying medical claims to get your hands on the stuff is a reality, and plenty of people know that. Until that sort of thing stops, until the image of the marijuana smoker can no longer be tied to such things as defrauding the health care system and screwing the tax payers who are responsible for paying for this 'treatment' you've got a better chance of building a snowman in Honolulu than you do of seeing marijuana legalized.

Its been given a stigma, perhaps unfairly, I don't know. the only information I have is the smokers telling me its not that bad, and everyone else saying it is. Until that stigma can be erased, which won't happen as long as there are people willing to cheat the health care system- keep the shades drawn.

 


Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

I like this mentality that if you think the legal status of marijuana should be challenged, you must be some kind of reefer madness stoner pothead kid or something. 


To clear the air (haha) I'll reiterate, I couldn't give a rats hind end if it becomes legal, illegal, or all blasted straight to the moon. All I'm saying is that as long as it is illegal, the distribution of it through medical means needs to be much more tightly controlled.


Back to Top
stratoaxe View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
And my axe...

Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6831
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 March 2009 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

So driving 60 in a 55 zone, but not smoking pot because it's illegal is selective morality as well right?
 
Sure is. I'm not saying (don't about FE, he went off on something completely different) that I've never practiced selective morality, I'm saying that it is what it is.
 
Pot is a touchy subject, because of selective morality. It's twofold-
 
1-Pot in essence should be legal. I think we can all (with the possible exception of FE :P) agree on that. But that leads me to...
 
2-Therefore it is my right to bypass that law based upon my personal moral idealogy.
 
Same with speed limits, seat belts, handicapped zones, or if you want to go into the big times, pirating, theft, etc etc
 
Fighting for your right to smoke pot is not selective morality, it's protest. But when you break the law you're fighting to have turned back, you step into selective morality.
 
Rosa Parks fought the law in the only way she knew how. The difference is that smoking pot and obtaining it illegally (especially as minor) actually hurts your cause, and gives people like FE more ammo for their war on irresponsible potheads.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 19>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.133 seconds.