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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Bruce Banner Bruce Banner wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Taking the word of God, who actually Created the world, you and I...

and using that to show the flaws with evolution...

Your right. I'm cheating. I've got the "teachers manual"... You should check it out, its the most popular book of all time. And it will point you in the direction of peace, happiness, and eternal life...

Ok - that makes it official.  I call troll.



Really? Just NOW you're calling troll?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:32pm

I wasn't there...

But, I would rather put my "faith" in the word of God.

Genesis 1

The Beginning

 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning葉he first day.

 6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning葉he second day.

 9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

 11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning葉he third day.

 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights葉he greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning葉he fourth day.

 20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning葉he fifth day.

 24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 27 So God created man in his own image,
       in the image of God he created him;
       male and female he created them.

 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground容verything that has the breath of life in it悠 give every green plant for food." And it was so.

 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning葉he sixth day.

 

Notice, that when God Created, everything was there. Not babies all over, and tiny seedlings. Full grown perfect creation, ready to reproduce and mulitply and fill the earth...

Science tells us that mutations die. And our DNA gets worse with each generation, not better. Which shows that the original Creation was perfect.

But, sin entered the world, and since sin causes death. Then things started going downhill. And it continues to degrade, according to science and the bible...

They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Predatorr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:35pm
So, will you continue to ignore my request that you use unbiased sources?

Again, your only argument is the word of God.  Your sole argument is
your blind faith, your absolute blind faith which you can't prove. 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but he designed us to get worse
and fall apart, for the purpose of proving that his original
creation was perfect? 

Sin is nothing more than a choice.  Is stealing wrong if you're poor
and you must steal to support your family?  Sin is objective, my friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:36pm

I thought God said this:

At first there was only a great void, Ginnungagap. Eventually a region of mist and ice, Niflheim, was formed in the North and a region of fire, Muspellsheim, was formed in the South. The great world-tree, Yggdrasil, reached through all time and space, but was perpetually under attack from Nidhogg, the evil serpent. The fountain of Mimir, source of hidden wisdom, lay under a root of the tree. Niflheim came into contact with Muspellsheim, and the fires melted the ice, which yielded Ymir, the Frost-Giant with a human form. From Ymir's sweat came a race of Giants, so that a huge cow (Audhumla) was created to feed them. One day the cow licked the ice and hair emerged, on the next day a head, and on the third day Buri emerged, fully formed. Buri begot a son, Bur, who in turn had three sons: Odin, Vili, and Ve. These three were a new race, not Giants but gods. They banded together and murdered Ymir. Most of the other Giants drowned in Ymir's blood, which created a great sea. From Ymir's body the three gods made solid land, the earth, and from his skull they made the heavens. They then created a race of dwarves from the maggots that fed upon Ymir's body. This was followed by the creation of the first man and the first woman. They shaped the man from an ash tree and the woman from a vine.

Now I am confused.  Which God to believe?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:40pm
Actually, "God" never said any of that. The people writing the books did. Now, if you want to put blind faith in a book that has been rewritten since the death of Christ, then by all means do it. 
"According to Sue Johanson, theres nothing that can increase your manhood, trust me I've already looked into it for myself." -Zata

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:43pm
Nah, FE is right, you can't trust science, I mean the dude that invented it was MUSLIM.  Friggin' terrorists have been conspiring against us since the beginning

And junky (assuming that point was aimed at me earlier), I was no where arguing that because gravity seems reasonable evolution should too.  My point was they were both theories, I just went on to try and illustrate that both theories offered about the same amount of proof when they were developed.


Edited by Darur - 13 November 2008 at 4:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:45pm
http://www.godisimaginary.com/
50 simple truths.

I can post bias sources too.

Edited by Hades - 13 November 2008 at 4:46pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/
50 simple truths.

I can post bias sources too.

LMAO.

Yeah I called the whole troll thing like 3 threads ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

http://www.godisimaginary.com/
50 simple truths.

I can post bias sources too.


/thread?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 4:58pm
alright ^ then i retract my previous statement darur.

FE - but what does the bible say really?



Quote in the begining


i'm gonna start here and add a little depth by defining the word beginning in the context of the orriginal language

reshiyth - strongs number 7225.

the first, in place, time, order or rank: beginning, chief, first, principal thing.

Quote God created


Bara' - strongs number 1254

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes) -- choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).


neither really forms a clear picture - there are certianly more concrete words for either one, other definitions i've seen describe bara' more simply to say either to create from nothing or reform from existing material - as the bible (as clarified) leaves the option that it was created orriginally, or reformed. either are possible given those words, which gives quite a bit of flexibility.



all of the other creative acts of god in genisis 1 are a different word

6213. asah

A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application (as follows) -- accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, + displease, do, (ready) dress(-ed), (put in) execute(-ion), exercise, fashion, + feast, (fight-)ing man, + finish, fit, fly, follow, fulfill, furnish, gather, get, go about, govern, grant, great, + hinder, hold ((a feast)), X indeed, + be industrious, + journey, keep, labour, maintain, make, be meet, observe, be occupied, offer, + officer, pare, bring (come) to pass, perform, pracise, prepare, procure, provide, put, requite, X sacrifice, serve, set, shew, X sin, spend, X surely, take, X thoroughly, trim, X very, + vex, be (warr-)ior, work(-man), yield, use.

and lets clarify the word day - as it applies to the 7 days of creation

yowm
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb) -- age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (... Live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.

many people assert that due to the extreme lack of how specific either of those words are, and that asah specifically used rather then bara, that it was trying to explain in simple terms evolution, but this has since been lost in translation.

Edited by adrenalinejunky - 13 November 2008 at 5:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 5:14pm
on subject - interesting article.
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/60/95O56/inde x.xml?section=topstories

Edited by adrenalinejunky - 13 November 2008 at 6:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 6:11pm
That's pretty cool stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:35pm

Look! A religion-fight!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

on subject - interesting article.
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/60/95O56/inde x.xml?section=topstories


Nice find, interesting stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2008 at 4:40am
I'M A SNIPER HOW DO I SHOOT FURTHER???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:54am

Originally posted by Predatorr Predatorr wrote:

So, will you continue to ignore my request that you use unbiased sources?

Again, your only argument is the word of God.  Your sole argument is
your blind faith, your absolute blind faith which you can't prove. 

Actually, if you check on the history of the bible, you will see that even the extremely old versions they have found, said the same thing that our "current" versions. As they threw away old copies with just ONE error in the replication... And yes, if I believe that the bible is the word of God, and God said, in the word of God, that he Created the earth, and everything in it. Then, No, I cannot ignore this source as it is the focus of the debate...

And correct me if I'm wrong, but he designed us to get worse
and fall apart, for the purpose of proving that his original
creation was perfect? 

Wrong.

God created man in his own image. He looked at what He Created and said" It is good". It was a perfect Creation. No death, just like the earth. Able to go on forever.

Man, then sinned. And brought sin into the earth. And the wages of sin is death. That is when the breakdown of our earth began. The first animals were killed to "clothe" Adam and Eve. The first death, as a result of the first sin...

Sin is nothing more than a choice.  Is stealing wrong if you're poor
and you must steal to support your family?  Sin is objective, my friend.

Actually, God cannot tolerate sin. So if you have ever sinned. Even in the smallest way. Then God can't take you to heaven... Man, with his sin nature has a hard time with this. In the old testament times, they had attonement using the law, and sacrifices. The blood and death of the animals paid the price for the sin of men... Then God sent his son, Jesus. Who was perfect, He died and his blood can cover anyone who believes in Him... 

See, when Jesus was killed, he had never sinned. Not once... He was the perfect sacrifice, and his blood then covers anyone who chooses to believe in him, as the savior of all sins.

 

We all get a choice, and no, sin isn't a choice, we are all destined to sin. Some of us choose to accept Christ to cover our sins, so that we can go to heaven. Others don't.



Edited by FreeEnterprise - 14 November 2008 at 9:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2008 at 9:05am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I am the worst troll ever.

Fixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2008 at 9:50am

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I am the worst troll ever.

Fixed.

Yeah...  that's not even worth responding to.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 November 2008 at 10:17am
I quit reading this crap fest.

Someone let me know when somebody does something stupid so I can lock it.


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