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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 11:50am
i can.  he is clearly high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 11:54am
Saying that evolution is true =/= saying that humans came from monkeys.

Evolution IS a fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 12:04pm

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Saying that evolution is true =/= saying that humans came from monkeys.

Evolution IS a fact.

What are you basing that on? Hundreds of thousands of fossils and collected evidence or some book magically dictated by an unseen, but omnipotent being?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Saying that evolution is true =/= saying that humans came from monkeys.

Evolution IS a fact.


Not true.  Evolution is a theory.

A theory most people in 1st world countries believe, that I personally believe, but a theory nonetheless.

Just like creationism is a theory.
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Bruce Banner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 12:19pm

Yep.  Just like "The Secret" is a theory, Newtonian physics is a (set of) theory, the 9/11 conspiracy is a theory, and general relativity is a theory.

Not all theories are created equal.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyHopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Bruce Banner Bruce Banner wrote:

Not all theories are created equal.


 



So then theories are like the intellectual's bung hole?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Bruce Banner Bruce Banner wrote:

Yep.  Just like "The Secret" is a theory, Newtonian physics is a (set of) theory, the 9/11 conspiracy is a theory, and general relativity is a theory.

Not all theories are created equal.



Meh.  I think there is still a lot of work to do on the specifics of evolution, that's all that theory means.  I don't count out the Biblical description of creation though.  I don't necessarily think that one precludes the other, as do most Christians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:07pm
i wouldnt say that is entirely true, somethings will remain theories for the simple fact that they cannot be fully proven, and barring some sort of time viewing or time travel, the theory of evolution is one of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Wow. Godwin's Law on the first post of the thread. Well
done.

I'm waiting to hear more info on this before I leap to
conclusions.
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:


Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Saying that evolution is true =/= saying that humans came from monkeys.

Evolution IS a fact.
Not true. Evolution is a theory.A theory most people in 1st world countries believe, that I personally believe, but a theory nonetheless.Just like creationism is a theory.
There's a difference between scientific theories and the use of the word theory for other things. It takes hundreds of tests and retests to even become close to becoming a theory. Theory is the best most aspects of science can do because that is all humans are capable of because we didn't create the universe or its rules, we can only interpret them as an end user.

Hell, gravity is still a "theory" but only the intelligent falling crowd debates that one.

Edited by mbro - 03 November 2008 at 1:16pm

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:16pm

Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

i wouldnt say that is entirely true, somethings will remain theories for the simple fact that they cannot be fully proven, and barring some sort of time viewing or time travel, the theory of evolution is one of those.

Actually, you have that backwards.  From a scientific perspective, a "theory" is something that has lots and lots of evidence supporting it.  Without the evidence, it is merely a "hypothesis."

The theory of evolution is about as well-proven as any other scientific theory - period.  Far more well-proven, for instance, than the theory of gravity that most people seem to take for granted.

From a literal perspective, no scientific theory is ever "fact" - but at some point theories become so well-proven that we can treat them as fact.  Evolution passed that threshold decades ago.

EDIT - Dammit, mbro!



Edited by Bruce Banner - 03 November 2008 at 1:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Hell, gravity is still a "theory" but only the intelligent falling crowd debates that one.


Gravity shmavity.  When I fall, it is the invisible hand of God pulling me down. 

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I don't see how you can even link any of this to the SS.


Darn.  There goes my dream of getting hired on as a Jack-booted thug for the liberal-elitest establishment.


Edited by Mack - 03 November 2008 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:24pm
I always said that the white man's god is keeping the brothas down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:33pm
w00t, beat bruce in a science debate post.

MBro: 1 Bruce: ∞

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Bruce Banner Bruce Banner wrote:

Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

i wouldnt say that is entirely true, somethings will remain theories for the simple fact that they cannot be fully proven, and barring some sort of time viewing or time travel, the theory of evolution is one of those.


Actually, you have that backwards.  From a scientific perspective, a "theory" is something that has lots and lots of evidence supporting it.  Without the evidence, it is merely a "hypothesis."


The theory of evolution is about as well-proven as any other scientific theory - period.  Far more well-proven, for instance, than the theory of gravity that most people seem to take for granted.


From a literal perspective, no scientific theory is ever "fact" - but at some point theories become so well-proven that we can treat them as fact.  Evolution passed that threshold decades ago.


EDIT - Dammit, mbro!



i disagree - i didnt say there wasnt a large quantity of evidence concerning evolution, what i am saying is that since we are talking about the past, there really is no way to test or "prove" what did happen exactly, until such point that recorded history would allow us the perspective to witness the indications of such evolution.

even then we couldnt say for absolute fact what happened before recorded history, though it would seem a little foolish, even to me, as someone who is not sold on evolution, to try to deny it at that point.

to summarize, proving is something that requires testing, and testing is something that cant be done when the question is "what happened in the past?"

and mbro- intelligent falling is a spoof making fun of intelligent design, and anybody who cant get past the sarcasm of its orriginators should just stay as far away from science as possible :)

Edited by adrenalinejunky - 03 November 2008 at 1:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:


and mbro- intelligent falling is a spoof making fun of intelligent design, and anybody who cant get past the sarcasm of its orriginators should just stay as far away from science as possible :)
Anyone who couldn't tell that I was using sarcasm should stay as far away from the internet as humanly possible.

Edited by mbro - 03 November 2008 at 1:41pm

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:43pm
eh, guess its not my day for sarcasm detection :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:44pm

Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

[
i disagree - i didnt say there wasnt a large quantity of evidence concerning evolution, what i am saying is that since we are talking about the past, there really is no way to test or "prove" what did happen exactly, until such point that recorded history would allow us the perspective to witness the indications of such evolution.

This is certainly true - hence my point about "fact" in the literal sense of the word.  Science never proves anything to certainty.  But science can, and does, show us that one explanation is far more likely than any other explanation - and this is what evolution is.  Any scientific theoretician will admit that we do not literally "know for a fact" that evolutionary theory is correct - but, frankly, the same can be said for a bunch of other things that we think we "know."

Evolution is, however, far and above the best explanation we have, and it has been backed up by such massive volumes of evidence that we can safely act on the belief that it is correct.  Life or death decisions are made every day upon far less evidence than we have for evolutionary theory.

On a side note - you are far too focused on "the past."  Science does not divide into past and future, but into known and unknown.  Sometimes the past is known and the future unknown, and sometimes the opposite is true.  Just because we "weren't there to see it" does in no way mean that we cannot gain a great degree of certainty about it.  Does anybody doubt that the civil war happened, for instance?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 1:59pm

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:



Gravity shmavity.  When I fall, it is the invisible hand of God pushing me down. 

Fixed before you get the wrath of the Christian right after you.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 2:00pm
part of my pre-ocupation with that in particular, is largely due to the fact that i have major issues with what some scientists claim we can determine about the past, or one of a great many other things for that matter, i'm all for studying and learning about things, but have my issues with some of the evidence and conclusions that are drawn from them being layed out "as fact"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce Banner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 2:06pm

Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

part of my pre-ocupation with that in particular, is largely due to the fact that i have major issues with what some scientists claim we can determine about the past, or one of a great many other things for that matter, i'm all for studying and learning about things, but have my issues with some of the evidence and conclusions that are drawn from them being layed out "as fact"

Scientists are working stiffs too.  They get carried away with their work and forget the theoretical underpinnings.

It can be annoying as heck to have somebody claim absolute knowledge of anything, but the validity of the science is, of course, unaffected by their obnoxiousness.

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