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2 Week Old 98 Shooting Horribly

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    Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:05pm
Purchased a Tippmann 98 2 weeks ago, loaded up some Visible Impact paintballs and was getting REALLY good accuracy for a great gun, I actually couldnt believe it. At about 140 feet I was getting 1 foot groupings. Then a week later my 14" J&J Ceramic Barrel and Car Stock came in. When I went to install those I also polished the interals and put everything back in. When I went to fire the gun was working fine but the accuracy and range was HORRIBLE. Max effective range was about 70 feet and the paintballs were dipping down horribly. I noticed a leak through one of my valve screws and later found out it was stripped. Everything else seems perfectly fine. Would a stripped slightly leaky valve screw hurt range and accuracy? On all my other friends 98s, purchased at the same time from the same place, you cant even see the paintballs travel, all you see is them hitting the target.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:08pm
Also Im getting quite a lot of CO2 out of the bolt area, you can see a puff everytime it shoots. I know there is going to be some blowback which blows back the hammer/piston but it seems like its doing it more then usual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:24pm
i think you need to buy some better paint. crappy paint tends to give you horrible accuracy. or your velocity is up way to high. is the paint going in crazy directions every time? the co2 coming out of the bolt area is normal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:25pm
Its not crappy paint, Game Face Visible Impact, has a 9.1 review on PBreview and it was shooting perfectly fine with the stock barrel before. Velocity was never touched. Now it just shoots about 70 feet dipping down like it wasn't as powerful as before.

Edited by TSI27 - 15 July 2008 at 1:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unvolution Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:28pm
does it still shoot fine with the stock barrel? maybe you did something when you polished it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:48pm
Which Valve screw are you talking about? Post a pic. Any leak is not good and can lead to loss of range due to loss of pressure. Also, if you took the marker apart, you will need to rechrono it. What FPS are you shooting?
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:50pm
Nope even with stock barrel still has bad accuracy/range. I called Tippmann and they said that it might be the valve leaking which is causing it not to use all of the CO2 to propel the paintball. I just dont understand how it would act so completely different. The only difference from before and after I can think of is the one stripped valve screw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 1:52pm

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Which Valve screw are you talking about? Post a pic. Any leak is not good and can lead to loss of range due to loss of pressure. Also, if you took the marker apart, you will need to rechrono it. What FPS are you shooting?

Im not sure what Im shooting at, I just got the gun 2 weeks ago and it was shooting perfectly fine. Its leaking from the valve screw on the right half of the gun. I took out the screw and the aluminum threading came out also so I know its stripped.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote im_new Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 3:46pm

fill ur co2 tank

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by im_new im_new wrote:

fill ur co2 tank

No way?

Can I get someone with some actual experience to respond instead of 14 year old kids?



Edited by TSI27 - 15 July 2008 at 5:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Originally posted by im_new im_new wrote:

fill ur co2 tank

No way?

Can I get someone with some actual experience to respond instead of 14 year old kids?



this is coming from you, who cant fix your own marker. people here actually have experience
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Can I get someone with some actual experience to respond instead of 14 year old kids?


^^^That is a very good way to get no responses at all around here.

The more information you provide, the easier it is for folks on here to help you.  The minimum necessary is the type of marker, the type of propellant and any upgrades made to the marker.  From the posts above I gathered the following:
  • You are using a 98 of some type
    • Telling us if it is a Custom or a Platinum and whether or not it has ACT would help  (I am assuming that it is a Custom since you mentioned valve screws)
  • You put on a J&J barrel
    • Knowing the length would help
  • You added a Carbine Stock
  • You polished the internals
An additional question would be what did you mean when you said "Velocity was never touched?"  You should be checking/adjusting your velocity at least before every usage of the marker to ensure you are firing at a safe yet adequate velocity.

Possible causes of your problem based on limited information provided:
  • The depth of the drive spring/guide pin receptacle on the stock is significantly deeper than the same part of the stock end cap which is affecting velocity by reducing spring compression.
  • The additional length/tighter bore of the after-market barrel is increasing friction on the balls which slows them significantly as they travel down the barrel.
If you add either (or both) of these issues to the leak you mentioned could be sufficient to cause the problems you described.

Additional information about the leak would be useful as well.  For instance which screw is it?  Is air coming out anyplace else such as around the trigger or down the barrel?

One final note; the description you provided of how your friends markers operate makes me think they might be shooting hot.  How long has it been since they chronoed their markers?


Edited by Mack - 15 July 2008 at 5:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Hop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:


  • You put on a J&J barrel
    • Knowing the length would help


       
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

14" J&J Ceramic Barrel


Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

2 weeks ago, loaded up some Visible Impact paintballs and was getting REALLY good accuracy


you bought new paint right? it wasn't leftover from two weeks ago?


Edited by K Hop - 15 July 2008 at 6:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Internecine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Purchased a Tippmann 98 2 weeks ago, loaded up some Visible Impact paintballs and was getting REALLY good accuracy for a great gun, I actually couldnt believe it. At about 140 feet I was getting 1 foot groupings. Then a week later my 14" J&J Ceramic Barrel and Car Stock came in. When I went to install those I also polished the interals and put everything back in. When I went to fire the gun was working fine but the accuracy and range was HORRIBLE. Max effective range was about 70 feet and the paintballs were dipping down horribly. I noticed a leak through one of my valve screws and later found out it was stripped. Everything else seems perfectly fine. Would a stripped slightly leaky valve screw hurt range and accuracy? On all my other friends 98s, purchased at the same time from the same place, you cant even see the paintballs travel, all you see is them hitting the target.


Your velicoty seems quite high. When i went to a paintball field, they forced em to turn mine down, and mine didnt nearly shoot far or straight as yours. Jeeze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 7:16pm

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

this is coming from you, who cant fix your own marker. people here actually have experience

Just because I haven't posted here does not mean I don't have experience. I could probably take apart your gun with a blindfold in 30 seconds.

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

The more information you provide, the easier it is for folks on here to help you.  The minimum necessary is the type of marker, the type of propellant and any upgrades made to the marker.

All my mods were previously stated and are also in my sig. Also, Ive said what kind of paint I was using.

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

An additional question would be what did you mean when you said "Velocity was never touched?"  You should be checking/adjusting your velocity at least before every usage of the marker to ensure you are firing at a safe yet adequate velocity.

I only play woodsball and haven't really been to a field to chrono my guns much. I meant velocity was never touched as in I never played with the FVA screw.

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Possible causes of your problem based on limited information provided:

  • The depth of the drive spring/guide pin receptacle on the stock is significantly deeper than the same part of the stock end cap which is affecting velocity by reducing spring compression.

    Measured both the stock end cap and the stock depth, both are the same. I even added a BB as a spacer just to make sure it was hitting the valve pin hard enough.
  • The additional length/tighter bore of the after-market barrel is increasing friction on the balls which slows them significantly as they travel down the barrel.

    As I stated before, I tested it with the stock barrel and same results.

If you add either (or both) of these issues to the leak you mentioned could be sufficient to cause the problems you described.



Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Additional information about the leak would be useful as well.  For instance which screw is it?  Is air coming out anyplace else such as around the trigger or down the barrel?

Again, as I stated before the leak is coming out of the valve screw on the right side of the marker frame. No offense, but Im starting to think you barely read any of my posts.

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

One final note; the description you provided of how your friends markers operate makes me think they might be shooting hot.  How long has it been since they chronoed their markers?

Chronoed 285 each out of the box, we had the same performance when we first got our markers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2008 at 10:51pm
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

this is coming from you, who cant fix your own marker. people here actually have experience

Just because I haven't posted here does not mean I don't have experience. I could probably take apart your gun with a blindfold in 30 seconds.



im willing to bet every single thing that i own that you couldn't take my gun apart in two minutes. and if you have experience, it shouldnt be hard to figure out your problem


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 8:46am

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

im willing to bet every single thing that i own that you couldn't take my gun apart in two minutes. and if you have experience, it shouldnt be hard to figure out your problem

Im pretty sure its just the valve leaking, I was asking if anyone had a similar issue. Don't post if you don't have anything useful.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 8:56am
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

The more information you provide, the easier it is for folks on here to help you.  The minimum necessary is the type of marker, the type of propellant and any upgrades made to the marker.

All my mods were previously stated and are also in my sig. Also, Ive said what kind of paint I was using.

By propellant, he means are you using CO2 or HPA, not what brand of paint.

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

An additional question would be what did you mean when you said "Velocity was never touched?"  You should be checking/adjusting your velocity at least before every usage of the marker to ensure you are firing at a safe yet adequate velocity.

I only play woodsball and haven't really been to a field to chrono my guns much. I meant velocity was never touched as in I never played with the FVA screw.

As mentioned, you should be checking your velocity after every game. It's actually possible that you are shooting too low now which would account for your issues.


Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Additional information about the leak would be useful as well.  For instance which screw is it?  Is air coming out anyplace else such as around the trigger or down the barrel?

Again, as I stated before the leak is coming out of the valve screw on the right side of the marker frame. No offense, but Im starting to think you barely read any of my posts.

You will find that Mack is one of the more knowledgable guys on this forum and actually takes the time to try and help Noobs. You may want to be a little less pissy about it.

And if the 14 year old comment is/was aimed at me, I am flattered that you would think I look that good for my age, but I am probably more than old enough to be your father. Play nice and maybe you will get the help you need.



Edited by oldpbnoob - 16 July 2008 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TSI27 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 9:15am

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

And if the 14 year old comment is/was aimed at me, I am flattered that you would think I look that good for my age, but I am probably more than old enough to be your father. Play nice and maybe you will get the help you need.

Don't flatter yourself then, it was actually aimed towards the person who told me to fill up my tank 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2008 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

No offense, but Im starting to think you barely read any of my posts.


Actually, I did read your post.  Normally I would get pissy back at you, but I kind of deserved that reply.  In my defense, this is the normal result when I try to do anything useful during an optical migraine.

In regards to your problem:

I think you have bigger issues than just a stripped screw.  Whenever I work on a valve I always test the valve and fittings before it goes back in the marker.  While it is probably not safe, what I do is hold the powertube/valve/hose/ASA assembly in my hand and screw an air tank into the ASA.  (I generally use compressed air for this and always have eye protection on, but it still isn't really a good idea.)  I do this so I don't have the valve back in when I discover any leaks because I'm kind of lazy and don't want to take the marker apart repeatedly.  If I've put it together correctly there is no air loss.

With this in mind, I would recommend checking for powertube damage, damage to the valve itself, and the condition of the valve o-ring.  Also, since this is a new marker, keep in mind that it is still under warranty.

Final note:  I've seen excessive internal polishing remove sufficient shell material that the hammer o-ring failed to seal, but I can't imagine a way that such a situation could be involved in the leak you're describing.  I only mentioned it because of the statement quoted below:

Originally posted by TSI27 TSI27 wrote:

Also Im getting quite a lot of CO2 out of the bolt area, you can see a puff everytime it shoots. I know there is going to be some blowback which blows back the hammer/piston but it seems like its doing it more then usual.



Edited by Mack - 16 July 2008 at 3:30pm
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