Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

This is why we’re boned....

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
mod98commando View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4423
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2008 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

... it's easy to see why a purely electricity based world is going to be much better for us when all these technologies come together.


The problem I have with all the talk of electricity as the gasoline alternative is that this electric power doesn't come out of nowhere. Your motivation to drive without paying $4.00/gallon for gas doesn't generate electricity so where does it come from? You plug your car into a wall somewhere to charge. Where does the electricity running to that wall come from? A power plant somewhere. Where do they get the electricity from? A big fat fossil fuel burning beast of a generator (probably multiple ones actually) that's doing exactly what your old car was only now it's working overtime to charge everybody's snazzy new electric cars. So instead of eliminating the demand for fossil fuel and cutting down on harmful emissions, we're just relocating it to wherever our power plants are. If you ask me, environmentalists should be opposed to electric power for this very reason. Think about it, if you concentrate all of those emissions in one spot the effects will be far greater at that location than if it was spread out over a huge area. And that's not even the main problem, we're still stuck on fossil fuels just at a different stage. If we go electric, we should probably focus more on photovoltaics (solar). The sun is constantly crapping energy on our planet, why not use it? Sure we use it a little bit in some places but if we all used it and improved the technology to be more efficient it could be a much more sensible solution.

There is an article floating around (might have been on CNN) about a guy who modified his car to run on water or gasoline and it was ridiculously efficient. The modifications were cheap and could be done with parts from a hardware store on top of that. The guy is supposedly a chemist so he figured out how to break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen, burn the hydrogen, and then the exhaust was mostly oxygen. It went something like that. Basically he figured out a cheap way to run a car on water that produces no harmful emissions and is very efficient. The article said he was talking with GM about getting this thing mass produced in the near future. I'm sure they could have this released to the public in just a few years since he already has a working version of it that appears to be completely safe but, as always, it'll probably get stalled for a few years for various reasons. In any case, I think that's our best bet right now. We get rid of our dependence on oil as far as vehicles are concerned, we eliminate harmful exhaust gases, and we can still use combustion engines so our cars can still keep that sound you can't help but love.
oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland
Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey
Me: But only if they're hungary
Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth
Back to Top
RoboCop View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Aw man, my butt is rusted...

Joined: 06 November 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5040
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2008 at 1:17am
Then if we use water to fuel our cars, ours lakes will be empty. Ever think of that?

SandMan:"oh yeah, sporx is totally hot"
Back to Top
Tolgak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Master of MSPaint and bri's Daddy

Joined: 12 July 2002
Location: BEHIND YOU!
Status: Offline
Points: 1239481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2008 at 1:18am
Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

... it's easy to see why a purely electricity based world is going to be much better for us when all these technologies come together.


The problem I have with all the talk of electricity as the gasoline alternative is that this electric power doesn't come out of nowhere.


Did you read my entire post? I specifically mentioned FUSION REACTORS.

When fusion reactors finally go online, our fossil fuel problem should fade away in a few decades. There will already be enough proliferation of electric, hybrid, and hydrogen vehicles by then, and most oil-based products will be replaced by either synthetic or renewable organic solutions. The only reason gas will be around will be to power vintage vehicles. When this society reaches the point where almost everything is run on electricity, there will be no "dirty" energy plants around.
Back to Top
mod98commando View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4423
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2008 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by RoboCop RoboCop wrote:

Then if we use water to fuel our cars, ours lakes will be empty. Ever think of that?


We have two enormous bodies of water on either side of our country, I think we'll be fine.

As for the idea of fusion reactors, when we do figure that one out, fantastic. Honestly though, I think we're a long way from getting that technology working. I'm pretty sure they've been trying to figure that out for a while now and I haven't heard anything indicating that they were very close to getting it working. Until they do manage to do it, we're still burning something to get our electricity so the problem will not be solved by switching to electric power. I will agree though, if we get something like a fusion reactor working then electric doesn't seem like a bad idea.
oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland
Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey
Me: But only if they're hungary
Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth
Back to Top
mbro View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Original Forum Gangster

Joined: 11 June 2002
Location: Isle Of Man
Status: Offline
Points: 10743
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2008 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Because I am an elitist and dont mind paying exuberant amounts of money for gas and the other products this effects, I am quite happy with the current gas price situation.

Those who cant afford it, can walk.
Pretty much.

Our gas is still quite cheap from a world wide perspective. We need to develop other fuel sources that are cheaper and won't run out. Higher prices will push that forward. It's a short term sacrifice that people will have too deal with.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 7:47am
Originally posted by jubba jubba wrote:

The oil companies make 300 billion a quarter in profit and they blame the polar bear being put on the endangered spiecies list and not being able to drill in Alaska as too why we are paying to much at the pump. What a load of ----! First thing Dubbua did was overrule every environmental act Clinton implimented his last 12 months. We have a oil man as president. When he was sworn in president oil was $30 a barrel now it's over $140. Gas was $1.09 a gallon now it's $4.19 a gallon. Opec hates this president for invading iraq under false intelligents so they are purposely keeping production down to keep prices high. But the 300 billion a quarter that just good old fasioned price gouging. And this administration would rather blame some tree hugging liberals then tell the truth. Truth is the presidents stock portfolio has multiplied 400% and who cares if you throw a few million middle class people under the bus to get richer.


The size of the 'facepalm' picture I need to use here would immediately bork the thread.

We get it, no one likes G.W. You're playing the card that makes liberals who are able to think look bad....When you don't know the answer, and definitely don't have a solution, you pull out the old "Bush did it!" line and feel like a brilliant hero for having figured it out.

You honestly believe that the invasion of Iraq was oil based, but that it wasn't to GET oil, but to PREVENT it from being produced? That's really a new one to me.
The fact of the matter is, the point of this thread was about our ability to drill for domestic oil, OR find other home grown ways to counter the global oil crisis, and why we can't do either because of bi-partisan stupidity, Dems. and Reps. Alike.

Oh, and I want to see where you got the $400% stock portfolio increase, or did you pull that from your kiester like you did the rest of your information?




Edited by Reb Cpl - 16 June 2008 at 8:03am


Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 11:50am

First off, I would like to say that I do not believe in any government or corporate conspiracies to hide new technology or intentially drive up fuel prices. As said, taxing and price fixing will not work either. Attempts at price fixing will simply cause massive shortages as the OPEC nations will simply ship their oil elsewhere. I also wonder just how much drilling here in the U.S. will even affect prices. Most likely what this will lead to is OPEC nations further reducing production to keep prices steady. Also, with the increased capacity, it will drive additional usage from Americans along with increasing usage from China and India. I guarantee, we will be right back in the same boat. How many of you realize that in oil producing countries that fuel is dirt cheap? I think I read somewhere that it is $.25/ gallon in Venezuela. You know why it is so cheap? Because the industry is government owned and subsidized to keep the prices low. Do you really think that will happen here? Umm... doubtful. Part of the reason gas is so expensive here, is because it is so cheap there.

Oh, and from my understanding the cost of crude accounts for nearly 80% of the final price of gas. Refineries may help, but the days of $1.50 gas are gone my friends.

My last comment is that this is most likely what our country needs to realize how excessive we are in our power/fuel usage. Go to Germany sometime and see how you like the fuel charges there. Two years ago when I was in Munich, diesel was nearly $4.00/ gallon at the time. This would account for the heavy reliance on public transportation and lack of gas guzzling SUV's. The vast majority of the cars were small, deisel and stick shift. Also unlike here, the freeways weren't choked with semi after semi after semi. Motion sensors were used on buildings to turn lights out when not in use, in the hallways, rooms etc. Look around you. Does the soccer mom with 2 kids really need a 4wheel drive V8 Expedition to take the kids 2 miles down the road every day to daycare or to grab a carton of eggs? Don't even get me started on Hummers. How many of you can look around your house right now and see one of more lights on in rooms where no one is in? is your HVAC set on 65 in the summer and 75 in the winter? Whens the last time you walked to the grocery 2 blocks away? Or rode your bike?

Time to wake up guys.

 

"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

First off, I would like to say that I do not believe in any government or corporate conspiracies to hide new technology or intentially drive up fuel prices. As said, taxing and price fixing will not work either. Attempts at price fixing will simply cause massive shortages as the OPEC nations will simply ship their oil elsewhere. I also wonder just how much drilling here in the U.S. will even affect prices. Most likely what this will lead to is OPEC nations further reducing production to keep prices steady. Also, with the increased capacity, it will drive additional usage from Americans along with increasing usage from China and India. I guarantee, we will be right back in the same boat. How many of you realize that in oil producing countries that fuel is dirt cheap? I think I read somewhere that it is $.25/ gallon in Venezuela. You know why it is so cheap? Because the industry is government owned and subsidized to keep the prices low. Do you really think that will happen here? Umm... doubtful. Part of the reason gas is so expensive here, is because it is so cheap there.

Oh, and from my understanding the cost of crude accounts for nearly 80% of the final price of gas. Refineries may help, but the days of $1.50 gas are gone my friends.

My last comment is that this is most likely what our country needs to realize how excessive we are in our power/fuel usage. Go to Germany sometime and see how you like the fuel charges there. Two years ago when I was in Munich, diesel was nearly $4.00/ gallon at the time. This would account for the heavy reliance on public transportation and lack of gas guzzling SUV's. The vast majority of the cars were small, deisel and stick shift. Also unlike here, the freeways weren't choked with semi after semi after semi. Motion sensors were used on buildings to turn lights out when not in use, in the hallways, rooms etc. Look around you. Does the soccer mom with 2 kids really need a 4wheel drive V8 Expedition to take the kids 2 miles down the road every day to daycare or to grab a carton of eggs? Don't even get me started on Hummers. How many of you can look around your house right now and see one of more lights on in rooms where no one is in? is your HVAC set on 65 in the summer and 75 in the winter? Whens the last time you walked to the grocery 2 blocks away? Or rode your bike?

Time to wake up guys.

 



Fantastic points. I think.
First, yes, the cost of crude determines the price of refined products. But wouldn't domestic acquisition of crude drive the cost of foreign crude down? If there's more of it in the market, the cost has got to drop. Crude is so high because of the limited amounts of production. Enhance that market, and you'll have a downward movement of crude prices, especially abroad. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that domestic drilling and production of oil in the U.S. would benefit the global market, not just help me fill my SUV at the pump. (A simplified outlook, it took me two tries to pass economics)

As far as 'no need for gas guzzling 4-wheel drive...yadda yadda'
Not all of us live in areas where public transportation is available. In fact, if a family around here doesn't have two cars, they're practically screwed. Where I live we measure distance in 'miles' and 'hours' so walking or biking to get a loaf of bread and half a gallon of milk is not feasible. We rely on our cars for every day existence, and often depend on 4 wheel drive transmissions to get us though a Catskill's winter.
You say "Its time to wake up" I say "I've been awake, and still need help."


Back to Top
Tolgak View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Master of MSPaint and bri's Daddy

Joined: 12 July 2002
Location: BEHIND YOU!
Status: Offline
Points: 1239481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Not all of us live in areas where public transportation is available. In fact, if a family around here doesn't have two cars, they're practically screwed. Where I live we measure distance in 'miles' and 'hours' so walking or biking to get a loaf of bread and half a gallon of milk is not feasible.


Exactly. I live at the very edge of a suburb where is essentially no public transportation, aside from schoolbusses and a few bus routes whose stops are at least a two hour's walk away from my house and only hit a few locations (food stores, high schools, senior communities). It's a 15 minute drive just to get to the commercial zones of my city for shopping. A trip to get groceries on foot would take the better part of the day, which is not possible for most employed people here.

On top of that, we have old people. Lots and lots of old people who have no driving skills whatsoever. We also have a ton of spoiled rich kids in fast and huge vehicles  that have no respect for the road. People die all the time in crashes here, as evidenced by memorials that line the roads. An SUV is the only way to be safe, and is the way to go if you have kids.

The city I live in is probably a 4 out of 10 for city layouts that require personal vehicles. There are places that are much, much worse. Until mass transit is much better established, it's unrealistic to expect the majority of the population to use anything other than personal vehicles for their daily lives.
Back to Top
Gator Taco View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gator Taco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:26pm
Gas is now over $4 a gallon here for regular. It hovered at $3.97 for a couple weeks.

I'm damn glad I'm not driving something with a V8 right now.
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:27pm

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Fantastic points. I think.
First, yes, the cost of crude determines the price of refined products. But wouldn't domestic acquisition of crude drive the cost of foreign crude down? If there's more of it in the market, the cost has got to drop. Crude is so high because of the limited amounts of production. Enhance that market, and you'll have a downward movement of crude prices, especially abroad. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that domestic drilling and production of oil in the U.S. would benefit the global market, not just help me fill my SUV at the pump. (A simplified outlook, it took me two tries to pass economics)

As far as 'no need for gas guzzling 4-wheel drive...yadda yadda'
Not all of us live in areas where public transportation is available. In fact, if a family around here doesn't have two cars, they're practically screwed. Where I live we measure distance in 'miles' and 'hours' so walking or biking to get a loaf of bread and half a gallon of milk is not feasible. We rely on our cars for every day existence, and often depend on 4 wheel drive transmissions to get us though a Catskill's winter.
You say "Its time to wake up" I say "I've been awake, and still need help."

It's been a "few" years since my college economics course, but I am pretty familiar with supply and demand as I deal with it every day. It is a very simplified veiw that raising supply will lower demand and thus prices. Do you really think that the OPEC nations are going to lower prices? I would put money on the fact that they will continue to lower production to keep prices artificially high. Think about it, if you are selling 10 barrels at $100/ barrel, you are making the same as selling 20 barrels at $50/barrel. Decrease production and you keep the prices high. All we saw for the past couple of years was OPEC testing the waters to see what was the pain threshhold. What they saw was that even though with increased prices, we still continued to take it right in the seat and continue on unabashed. Truthfully, even if we reduce our use, will prices lower? Most likely not. It is in our best interest to use current techonologies to lower our usage to keep our cost down, not expecting it to lower overall prices.

As for where people live, I agree mass transit is not viable for a lot of areas outside major metro. I grew up in Orlando, and now live in BFE Ohio. In both, you still need to have a car. I agree to a certain extent that some people need 4x4's, but a Hummer? An Expedition? How about a 6 cylinder Explorer? or a 4 cyclinder RAV4? While I mention Florida, go check out Orlando, Boca, Miami and you will see Hummers, Expeditions, Escalades etc commonly. Need based doesn't work there. I believe 1991 was the last time it snowed there.

By no means am I saying that anyone is going to 'force" Americans to start driving smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles. Simple economics will. A lot of people on here don't remember the 70's. I do. What do you think killed the muscle car? Sure, high insurance rates helped, but so did rising gas prices and public opinion. All happened about the same time that Honda, Toyota and the other imports grabbed a toe hold in the U.S. Americans demanded smaller more gas efficient vehicles.. Honda gave us the Civic, Toyota gave us the Corolla, Ford gave us the Pinto, AMC gave us the Gremlin, and Chevy gave us the Opel. This statement alone explains the vast majority of the downfall of the American auto industry.

 

"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
ammolord View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 July 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Fantastic points. I think.
First, yes, the cost of crude determines the price of refined products. But wouldn't domestic acquisition of crude drive the cost of foreign crude down? If there's more of it in the market, the cost has got to drop. Crude is so high because of the limited amounts of production. Enhance that market, and you'll have a downward movement of crude prices, especially abroad. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that domestic drilling and production of oil in the U.S. would benefit the global market, not just help me fill my SUV at the pump. (A simplified outlook, it took me two tries to pass economics)

As far as 'no need for gas guzzling 4-wheel drive...yadda yadda'
Not all of us live in areas where public transportation is available. In fact, if a family around here doesn't have two cars, they're practically screwed. Where I live we measure distance in 'miles' and 'hours' so walking or biking to get a loaf of bread and half a gallon of milk is not feasible. We rely on our cars for every day existence, and often depend on 4 wheel drive transmissions to get us though a Catskill's winter.
You say "Its time to wake up" I say "I've been awake, and still need help."

It's been a "few" years since my college economics course, but I am pretty familiar with supply and demand as I deal with it every day. It is a very simplified veiw that raising supply will lower demand and thus prices. Do you really think that the OPEC nations are going to lower prices? I would put money on the fact that they will continue to lower production to keep prices artificially high. Think about it, if you are selling 10 barrels at $100/ barrel, you are making the same as selling 20 barrels at $50/barrel. Decrease production and you keep the prices high. All we saw for the past couple of years was OPEC testing the waters to see what was the pain threshhold. What they saw was that even though with increased prices, we still continued to take it right in the seat and continue on unabashed. Truthfully, even if we reduce our use, will prices lower? Most likely not. It is in our best interest to use current techonologies to lower our usage to keep our cost down, not expecting it to lower overall prices.

As for where people live, I agree mass transit is not viable for a lot of areas outside major metro. I grew up in Orlando, and now live in BFE Ohio. In both, you still need to have a car. I agree to a certain extent that some people need 4x4's, but a Hummer? An Expedition? How about a 6 cylinder Explorer? or a 4 cyclinder RAV4? While I mention Florida, go check out Orlando, Boca, Miami and you will see Hummers, Expeditions, Escalades etc commonly. Need based doesn't work there. I believe 1991 was the last time it snowed there.

By no means am I saying that anyone is going to 'force" Americans to start driving smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient vehicles. Simple economics will. A lot of people on here don't remember the 70's. I do. What do you think killed the muscle car? Sure, high insurance rates helped, but so did rising gas prices and public opinion. All happened about the same time that Honda, Toyota and the other imports grabbed a toe hold in the U.S. Americans demanded smaller more gas efficient vehicles.. Honda gave us the Civic, Toyota gave us the Corolla, Ford gave us the Pinto, AMC gave us the Gremlin, and Chevy gave us the Opel. This statement alone explains the vast majority of the downfall of the American auto industry.

 

i have an 4wd expedition and an 4wd f-150 with a 5.4L trition V8. a explorer or a rav4 wont cut it in 4ft of snow like a bigger SUV/truck will. not in north dakota annyway.



Edited by ammolord - 16 June 2008 at 12:33pm
PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:35pm

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

An SUV is the only way to be safe, and is the way to go if you have kids.

Nonsense. As mentioned, big SUVs are nearly non-existent in Europe and their mortality rate is no higher. Also take into consideration that you actually have a higher roll over rate in an SUV than you do in a passenger car. The only higher rate I can imagine would be if one vehicle is an SUV and the other is a small car. However, if we are all driving small cars this scenario is negated to being irrelevant.

"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:37pm
I'm with you when you say "Who needs a Hummer?" If we're talking about the car, There is no need for one, anytime, anywhere in the civilian world. 


Back to Top
ammolord View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 July 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

An SUV is the only way to be safe, and is the way to go if you have kids.

Nonsense. As mentioned, big SUVs are nearly non-existent in Europe and their mortality rate is no higher. Also take into consideration that you actually have a higher roll over rate in an SUV than you do in a passenger car. The only higher rate I can imagine would be if one vehicle is an SUV and the other is a small car. However, if we are all driving small cars this scenario is negated to being irrelevant.

you have a point. but i think hes talking about size wize, you have a better chance of surviving a crash in a SUV than a small car.

PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by ammolord ammolord wrote:

]

i have an 4wd expedition and an 4wd f-150 with a 5.4L trition V8. a explorer or a rav4 wont cut it in 4ft of snow like a bigger SUV/truck will. not in north dakota annyway.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but interesting that people have been living in North Dakota for hundreds, if not thousands of years prior to having these vehicles. Wonder what they did? If there are four feet of snow on the ground, what are you doing on the roads anyways? Anything more than a couple of inches here in Ohio and there is a level 3 snow emergency. And for the other 8 months of the year that there isnt 4 feet of snow on the ground...?



Edited by oldpbnoob - 16 June 2008 at 12:40pm
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
ammolord View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 July 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by ammolord ammolord wrote:

]

i have an 4wd expedition and an 4wd f-150 with a 5.4L trition V8. a explorer or a rav4 wont cut it in 4ft of snow like a bigger SUV/truck will. not in north dakota annyway.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but interesting that people have been living in North Dakota for hundreds, if not thousands of years prior to having these vehicles. Wonder what they did? If there are four feet of snow on the ground, what are you doing on the roads anyways? Anything more than a couple of inches here in Ohio and there is a level 3 snow emergency. And for the other 8 months of the year that there isnt 4 feet of snow on the ground...?

they havent canceled school for 4ft on the ground, so i have no choice.

and for the rest of the year, i have this (click sig)

PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
Back to Top
Gator Taco View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 June 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gator Taco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

An SUV is the only way to be safe, and is the way to go if you have kids.

Nonsense. As mentioned, big SUVs are nearly non-existent in Europe and their mortality rate is no higher. Also take into consideration that you actually have a higher roll over rate in an SUV than you do in a passenger car. The only higher rate I can imagine would be if one vehicle is an SUV and the other is a small car. However, if we are all driving small cars this scenario is negated to being irrelevant.



Have you ever seen what happens to a Honda Accord when a Chevy Tahoe nails it doing 45MPH?
Back to Top
ammolord View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 July 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Gator Taco Gator Taco wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

An SUV is the only way to be safe, and is the way to go if you have kids.

Nonsense. As mentioned, big SUVs are nearly non-existent in Europe and their mortality rate is no higher. Also take into consideration that you actually have a higher roll over rate in an SUV than you do in a passenger car. The only higher rate I can imagine would be if one vehicle is an SUV and the other is a small car. However, if we are all driving small cars this scenario is negated to being irrelevant.



Have you ever seen what happens to a Honda Accord when a Chevy Tahoe nails it doing 45MPH?

thats what i was talking about in my post, il try and find a good pic to make my point.

**edit**

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04Yj9Ged6Daos/610x.jpg

those cars were hit by that blue SUV, look at the diffrence.



Edited by ammolord - 16 June 2008 at 12:49pm
PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
Back to Top
Reb Cpl View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
2010 Worst Luck award winner

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 14004
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 12:46pm
What about the difference in the local economy itself that would have you drive through these 'snow emergencies' now, as opposed to having everything shut down even 30 years ago? In a small town, there is a substantial number of people who need to get to work in any amount of snow and ice, namely the guys who drive plows, or who work at the ski slopes. Sure, schools shut down, but the local economy grinds on, requiring people to get to work, and requiring vehicles that are able to get there in one piece.

Now talk about the summer months, where there is no snow and the roads are dry. What about having a vehicle that's powerful enough to tow a trailer with landscaping equipment? Or boat trailers of you're in that business. What about the guys who need to drive down trails to get to a logging site? And like I said, around me, this is the standard life for many people. In the winter, they have to get to work, and in the summer, they have to get to work.




Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.250 seconds.