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Westboro Baptist Church is coming...

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usafpilot07 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 9:33am
Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:



pwnt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 9:37am
Doesn't beat Hitman's "homeless porn" hotlink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 9:46am
The sign on the far right makes Me lol. Especially because the guy holding it looks like He might be a Homosexual (see: fannypack).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 9:53am
Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:

The sign on the far right makes Me lol. Especially because the guy holding it looks like He might be a Homosexual (see: fannypack).
Um. All I see is this.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:

The sign on the far right makes Me lol. Especially because the guy holding it looks like He might be a Homosexual (see: fannypack).
Um. All I see is this.



pwnt.


?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 10:07am
/facepalm.jpg

Only you see the WBC pic, because you hotlinked it, nub. Everyone else sees the kitten pic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 11:02am

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

As said in previous posts and the posted email, the best thing to do is just ignore.

These people thrive on attention, they will go away if people just stop caring.

It is a stronger message than violence which actually has a reverse effect, only helping their cause.

I’m with carl on this one.  While I can’t stand these hate-mongering-facist-inbred-cousin-lovin’-losers, and would not feel any sympathy if bad things happened to them, the best response to them is to ignore them.  The media shows up for the WBC protests because they know there will be counter-protests and they are hoping for something “newsworthy” to occur.  Without the counter-protests there would be minimal chance for any such occurrence and much less reason for media interest.  Nobody wants to be the reporter who writes the following article:

Originally posted by some news guy some news guy wrote:

The WBC protested a soldier's funeral today in ______, __. The only protesters present were the 5 members of the WBC.  Nothing happened.

This lack of confrontation is one of the reasons that the Freedom Riders' counter-actions are so effective.  The media quickly lost interest in events with both organizations present once it became apparent that it was very unlikely the WBCers were going to receive a well deserved ass-whippin' at the hands of the Riders.

Sad to say it, but the counter-protestors in the video made the WBC look good*.  Consider an outside perspective:  The small brave band of WBCers, stoically holding their signs and bravely exercising their right to free speech despite the hoard of enraged counter-protesters harassing/threatening them.  Were the WBC signs hateful?  Yes, but who was screaming hate and obscenity?  Who, besides the WBC, made themselves appear intolerant?  The text at the end of the video indicates the posters think a message was sent to the WBC.  Perhaps one was, but I doubt they care.  What is disturbing is that another message was also sent.  A message which essentially told the world that we only care about free speech when it is speech we agree with; we are hypocrites.

Originally posted by Mehs Mehs wrote:


I hope to god that the judge is lenient, if not understands my motives and just drops everything

Don’t count on it.  Keep in mind that any leniency on behalf of the court system would be the equivalent of the courts supporting your beliefs.  While it could happen, our courts our supposed to be impartial and make decisions based on the law.  What is likely to happen is that the court will not even consider the circumstances but just look at the crimes and treat you in a manner similar to any other first offender.  The good news is that as a first offender, you have a very good chance of perhaps plea bargaining to the point where nothing has to go on your record.

I understand why you did what you did.  While I think it was foolish and ill-advised, I also have to admit that I consider it admirable that you took action on your beliefs.  What I find less admirable is that you seem reluctant to accept the logical consequences of your actions.  True courage is not just taking an action, but being willing to accept the responsibility for the actions taken as well.

Originally posted by Roll Tide Roll Tide wrote:


It's unfortunate that you were arrested, but that's how our justice system works. People like the WBC can hide behind laws and spread their message of hate, because if someone steals their signs or throws things at them, the great American justice system is there to prosecute the wrong people. I know we must protect free speech, but when a college kid steals a bag of signs that read "God hates (homosexuals)" and "God hates America" and "Thank God for IEDs" and gets arrested while the ones who actually wrote whats on the signs get a police escort, something is a little off. JMO.

What the WBC does is called freedom of speech. (It’s a right.)

What Mehs did is called stealing. (It’s a crime.)

Do I agree with the way the WBC chooses to exercise their rights.  No, I don’t.  However, the minute that anyone can choose what freedoms can be exercised, by whom, in support of which beliefs; freedom no longer exists. 

I have to wonder what the forum reaction would be if this had been an anti-war protest with hateful slogans about the nation’s leadership and the soldiers in Iraq and I had stolen their signs and ran** away with them.  Would I be the “good-guy” preventing hateful speech or an anti-free speech facist?
 

*At least as good as they can look.

**I apply this term loosely since my top speed isn’t all that fast anymore.



Edited by Mack - 11 April 2008 at 12:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:18pm
Mack, everything you said is right.

Though I believe when you express your rights and they infringe on the rights of others, you no longer should be allowed to express them.(made sense in my head)

You should not be allowed free speech to "attack" others. What they do is pretty much attack mourning families.

Your analogy of the anti-war protest is kind of the same. If you got arrested doing what Mehs did I would agree with it, because it is  not a protest of a funeral.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Mack, everything you said is right.

Though I believe when you express your rights and they infringe on the rights of others, you no longer should be allowed to express them.(made sense in my head)

This is my initial, visceral reaction as well.  When I force myself to really consider the situation though I have to resist this instinctive reaction.

You should not be allowed free speech to "attack" others. What they do is pretty much attack mourning families.

I feel (note; I said feel, not believe) the same way.  The WBC prey on the suffering of others to advance their cause.  This is an "ends justifies the means" approach that is contrary to mainstream Christian belief and most secular moral philosophies as well.*

The problem with disallowing speech that is hurtful to others is the question of where do you draw the line?  The restrictions on free speech are currently quite narrowly defined which allows the WBC to continue doing what they do.  But consider the potential results of a broader definition.  Do we protect everyone from being offended?  The aforementioned anti-war protests are offensive to some people as are gay pride marches.  If you draw the line anywhere in between, how do you decide where it is?  What makes one person's/group's issues sufficiently superior to another's to justify the restriction on free speech?  We could go with a simple majority rule, but that wouldn't work out very well for many minority groups.  Perhaps there is a solution in the drafting of laws that defines the targets of the free speech in a manner similar to the hate crime laws.  (I.e. if the speech, or the manner in which it is presented, constitute a personal attack it could be limited.)  Even this is not a task I would wish to undertake or see undertaken.  The potential for abuse and loss of freedom is just too great.


Your analogy of the anti-war protest is kind of the same. If you got arrested doing what Mehs did I would agree with it, because it is  not a protest of a funeral.

*One could use utilitarianism to argue that the means is acceptable because the end result is beneficial to society.  The problem with this approach is that the WBC has never proven that their ends would provide a societal benefit worth its costs.  In fact, outside of spewing hate, they really don't seem to have a clearly identified end goal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2008 at 8:45pm
Mehs: I applaud you on at least having the balls to do what you did. There's no disputing it was 'wrong' and was illegal, and that you have to pay the piper, but kudos to you nonetheless. Those people are absolute scum.

That photo, by the way, is pure win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xTippyx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:01pm
why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


So . . . free speech should only apply to people with the "right" views?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


Just be glad we also live in a country where common sense and proper english are not mandatory qualities for a good life either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


Just be glad we also live in a country where common sense and proper english are not mandatory qualities for a good life either.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


Just be glad we also live in a country where common sense and proper english are not mandatory qualities for a good life either.


In all fairness all he missed was three capitalizations. That's not bad around here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


Just be glad we also live in a country where common sense and proper english are not mandatory qualities for a good life either.


In all fairness all he missed was three capitalizations. That's not bad around here.


Well; that, a couple missed commas and a misspelled word or two combined with his opening statement seemed reason enough for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why (beginning of sentence--capitalization error)  can't we just drop and (should be an) a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....(unnecessary use of ellipses--nothing was omitted) I watched a documentary on WBC, (unnecessary comma) called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i (capitalization error) felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , (a semi-colon with a comma after the following but or no punctuation at all would have been more appropriate here) but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier (spelling) views are.


Just be glad we also live in a country where common sense and proper english are not mandatory qualities for a good life either.


In all fairness all he missed was three capitalizations. That's not bad around here.


It was worse than that, see red text in original post for explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xTippyx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:54pm

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


So . . . free speech should only apply to people with the "right" views?

I meant to put "how wrong we believe their views are."

Since when are there grammar wars around here?



Edited by xTippyx - 12 April 2008 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


So . . . free speech should only apply to people with the "right" views?

I meant to put "how wrong we believe their views are."

Since when are there grammar wars around here?



Not really a "war" going on. You just have extremely poor written-English skills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xTippyx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2008 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by xTippyx xTippyx wrote:

why can't we just drop and a-bomb right on their freaking church and just be done with them....I watched a documentary on WBC, called Fall from Grace. The first time i watched it i felt compelled to go beat the crap out of some of them , but we live in a country where free speech applies to everyone no matter how wrong thier views are.


So . . . free speech should only apply to people with the "right" views?

I meant to put "how wrong we believe their views are."

Since when are there grammar wars around here?



Not really a "war" going on. You just have extremely poor written-English skills.

Sorry if I add an extra letter to a word because I am typing fast, or I do not spell a word correctly, or if I don't feel like holding the shift button for an "I". Plus I am only in high school so my grammar like commas and semicolons may be off occasionally.

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