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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .357 Magnum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:14am
You really just need a shotgun. A lot of pistols will go through walls but they make home defense ammo. As for pistols, I never liked that everyone and their brother has a 1911. But, most people have customized 1911's.


Personally, I love a plain classic looking 1911.



Or if you like stainless and want something with a little more flash,




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:24am
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

and i'd rather have a gun for those 5 minutes.


Not like there aren't a billion other ways to protect yourself than shooting the person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:35am
but are there any that will increase my epeen as exponentially? no.

but really, thats probably the most effective defense i can think of.  Also, when you live out in the country, response times tend to be way longer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:41am
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

but are there any that will increase my epeen as exponentially? no.but really, thats probably the most effective defense i can think of.  Also, when you live out in the country, response times tend to be way longer


Stiall unnecessary unless looking cool on the internet and at your local NRA (or KKK, whatever you're into) meeting.

Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:44am
.357, that's the Springfield G.I.45 milspec, I know this as I own that very weapon.

Merc, for home defense, there are three major factors to consider after, and ONLY after you make the decision that you will be willing to end an intruder's life without prejudice. If you aren't willing to accept that fact and come to terms with the notion that you will end someones life when you equip yourself with a weapon for defensive purposes, then don't buy a fire-arm for home defense. While I'm sure you've already made that decision, I just had to get that out of the way.

Now the three things to consider are these (in no specific order)
  • Knock-down power
  • Collateral penetration
  • Ease of use (including loading and aiming)


Knock-down power is important since you don't want them getting back up. Also, not needing to fire off a salvo to put someone down is important as it minimizes the chances of collateral damage due to missing the target or over-penetration. That doesn't mean you want the biggest, baddest round out there as not only do collateral and over penetration issues come into play again but high velocity fire arms tend to have a hefty weight due to the need to compensate both structurally and physically for the inverse action of the projectile being fired (ie recoil). 9mm will do the job, but there are some big people out there that it might not go down if you wing them with a 9mm rather than getting a center-mast shot. 10mm and S&W.40 both pack a little more "oomph" and carry more energy to be dispersed in the target giving you more knock-down without much more recoil. The highest caliber round I would suggest for home defense is .45ACP. It is widely available, and the .45ACP platform has been around long enough that it has been refined to exceptional stability. Now, .45 can come in a hi-cap mag (double stack) but it makes the grip frame a little wide for my taste, so I'm limited to 7 rounds to get the job done. I don't think that would be much of an issue. In home invasion situations there are rarely more than two perps/assailants involved. If you want the security of a higher capacity fire-arm, then I'd suggest something chambered for S&W .40 as it seems to carry a little more energy to target than other mid-range calibers.

Collateral penetration is a big issue when considering a home defense weapon. You want to ensure that you don't over-penetrate and kill someone in the next room or even the next house. Almost every caliber suitable for home defense is available in some form of a hollow-point. Not only does that allow you to ensure that the full force of the projectile is transfered to the target, it can also reduce over-penetration issues. That is not to say that there isn't still a very real danger of hitting and killing someone else in your house should you shoot a wall, but the risk is somewhat reduced. Again, the "big guns" like the .44magnum and 500S&W mean a lot more energy which means a lot more penetration even with a hollow-point round, hence my suggestion to again, stay way from anything heavier than .45ACP. Shotguns are popular for home defense as they don't carry as much energy in each individual piece of shot meaning that over penetration issues are again reduced, though not as much as using hollow-points.

Finally, ease of use. You want something that you can load easily (never leave a loaded weapon in your house) in the middle of the night with no lights on. This is where handguns have their down-fall in home defense (imho) as slamming a magazine in place when startled from sleep in the dark can take a moment. Shotguns are slightly easier to ensure proper loading with given the circumstances. Of course, you should familiarize yourself with your weapon of choice to the point that the issue of loading should be minimal at worst. Aiming is also a big thing to think about. It's dark, you may be surprised, and you want to make sure that the first shot counts. Again, shotguns are great in this aspect as 12ga. 00-buck gives a good spread after about 5-8 feet without getting too big giving you excellent knock-down power and less chance of collateral penetration. While you may be close to the target, there is more chance of missing with a pistol in the heat of the moment.

Personally, my choice would be a two shotguns. You don't need anything expensive for fancy. A Mossberg will work just fine. I like pistols and yes, I do have a .45ACP for both target shooting and home protection, but if I could afford it right now, I'd be picking up a shotgun as well simply due to the fact that it has a lot going for it in home defense.

Hope that helps!

Remember, practical is always better than expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:49am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gardy90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:54am
my family has and always will have firearms in the house, living on a farm, its not that uncommon to take you shotgun/rifle with you when you go out at night, if you hear racket and such. now i realize tht it it much different in the city than on a farm but i belive that having a firearm(notice i did not call it a weapon..) in the house is a good idea, asuming that it is wither locked or hidden away, not just sitting behind the kitchen door. but jsut the fact that you have it is a deturrent in itself, someone breaking in hears the "shlack shlack" of a .12 (even if its not loaded) will turn right around and haul A**
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:56am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.


yup yup.  i dont have to worry as much about my neighbors killing me or raping my daughter, but knowing that response times will be much slower mkaes thieves/ other harmdoers much more likely to target my home.  im not covered by city cops, but by sherrifs and states as tallen said.  I feel like not being prepared to protect my family from anything, as much as i would prefer not to have to, would be a gross example of neglect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 12:57am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.

I just doubt it happens enough to need a gun.

And I don't think that a gun would be the proper response in 90% of situations anyways
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:01am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.

I just doubt it happens enough to need a gun.

And I don't think that a gun would be the proper response in 90% of situations anyways


but that 10% could really mess things up.  always be prepared.  I've never gotten in a car wreck and dont plan to, but i still have auto insurance.  i dont plan on ever having a heart attack or stroke or any serious medical condition, but i still have health insurance.  i dont plan on any intruder trying to come into my home and harming me or my family, but i still have a gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gardy90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:14am
amen to that, all it takes is that one "i wish i had a gun" moment or situation 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:25am
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:


Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.

I just doubt it happens enough to need a gun.

And I don't think that a gun would be the proper response in 90% of situations anyways
but that 10% could really mess things up.  always be prepared.  I've never gotten in a car wreck and dont plan to, but i still have auto insurance.  i dont plan on ever having a heart attack or stroke or any serious medical condition, but i still have health insurance.  i dont plan on any intruder trying to come into my home and harming me or my family, but i still have a gun.


Or just come to Canada
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gardy90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:30am
sounds like a plan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:32am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

but are there any that will increase my epeen as exponentially? no.but really, thats probably the most effective defense i can think of.  Also, when you live out in the country, response times tend to be way longer


Stiall unnecessary unless looking cool on the internet and at your local NRA (or KKK, whatever you're into) meeting.

Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Better safe than sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:34am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Riddle me this: If there is less response time in the country, that would mean there are less cops for a given area. If there are less cops in a given area, there will be less people in this given area. If there are less people, than there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason at all (That's why you need the gun rite? Or is it to protect yourself from the people breaking into your house that are often unarmed?) If there are less people to try and kill you in your sleep for no reason, than you are safer. If you are safer, why do you need a gun?

Unless you live in the country part of the bronx.


Statistically speaking, forced entries into homes are far greater per-capita in outlying suburbs and rural areas. It is far easier for a thief or assailant to enter a rural home due to less public notice given the population density of rural areas than it is in a more populous one. Response times in rural areas also tend to be far greater than urban/suburban ones. While most suburbs have city or county police units, rural areas tend to rely on sheriff-based services or the state police who are responsible for vast territorial jurisdictions with a significantly smaller force.

I just doubt it happens enough to need a gun.

And I don't think that a gun would be the proper response in 90% of situations anyways


That's like saying, "The chances of me crashing my car are so slim that I'm not going to wear my seatbelt."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:36am
Carl, really. Is the constant, condescending anti-gun BS necessary? Almost every thread I've seen that has to do with guns, you're the first in with some sort of "Redneck/NRA/KKK" comment. We get it. You don't like the idea of home-defense weaponry. If you haven't noticed, not one person who's thread has had the pleasure of the grace of your presence has cared. We won't change your mind, and indeed we aren't trying to. And in turn you won't change ours, so stop trying. Will you take what I wrote seriously? Probably not. Do I care that you don't care? No. I'm just tired of every firearms thread becoming an argument over the 2nd amendment that you started, which ironically doesn't even concern you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 1:36am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:


Or just come to Canada


why the hell would i do a thing like that?  becuase of your ignorantly liberal drinking laws?  your lack of resolve on the cuban trade embargo?  the only reason i can think of to move to canada is your acceptance of firearms for the purpose of defense in case the police are not sufficient.
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Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

Carl, really. Is the constant, condescending anti-gun BS necessary? Almost every thread I've seen that has to do with guns, you're the first in with some sort of "Redneck/NRA/KKK" comment. We get it. You don't like the idea of home-defense weaponry. If you haven't noticed, not one person who's thread has had the pleasure of the grace of your presence has cared. We won't change your mind, and indeed we aren't trying to. And in turn you won't change ours, so stop trying. Will you take what I wrote seriously? Probably not. Do I care that you don't care? No. I'm just tired of every firearms thread becoming an argument over the 2nd amendment that you started, which ironically doesn't even concern you.


I love guns.

The kkk thing was obviously a joke.

I am just against the idea of everyone needing a gun to protect themselves when there are so many better ways for home security and protection.

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:


Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Or just come to Canada
why the hell would i do a thing like that?  becuase of your ignorantly liberal drinking laws?  your lack of resolve on the cuban trade embargo?  the only reason i can think of to move to canada is your acceptance of firearms for the purpose of defense in case the police are not sufficient.


Actually, you are quite backwards on that one. If you are looking for light restrictions on firearms for self defense, you are in the right place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 2:57am
that was what i was getting at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2008 at 3:41am
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

Carl, really. Is the constant, condescending anti-gun BS necessary? Almost every thread I've seen that has to do with guns, you're the first in with some sort of "Redneck/NRA/KKK" comment. We get it. You don't like the idea of home-defense weaponry. If you haven't noticed, not one person who's thread has had the pleasure of the grace of your presence has cared. We won't change your mind, and indeed we aren't trying to. And in turn you won't change ours, so stop trying. Will you take what I wrote seriously? Probably not. Do I care that you don't care? No. I'm just tired of every firearms thread becoming an argument over the 2nd amendment that you started, which ironically doesn't even concern you.


I love guns.


Never said you didn't.

Quote
The kkk thing was obviously a joke.


Judging from your general attitude in these kinds of threads, sometimes I wonder...

Quote
I am just against the idea of everyone needing a gun to protect themselves when there are so many better ways for home security and protection.


K. And if a person wants a gun for home security, how does this affect you? If he has a gun and never has to use it (other than for recreation), then what harm can come out of it? It takes a LOT of personal fortification to end someone's life. I'm sure if he has the option, he won't use the gun. If he feels more secure with a last line of defense, so be it.
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