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    Posted: 26 February 2008 at 11:15pm
Hey guys,
I was wondering if anyone has any experience in making their own mock silencers with pvc pipes etc.

Cheers,


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopsycho650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2008 at 7:49am
I did.  About 4 years ago.  The issue I had was finding a inner diameter match.  I got pretty close, and sanded out the inside of the pipe with a wooden dowel and some 400 grit sand paper.

Believe it or not, it worked when it didn't break balls.  It would break about 25% of the paint shot through it.  Needless to say, I don't use it, but it was fun to make.

A few weeks ago, I say a Trinity Recon 14" barrel w/ Suppressor.  The suppressor work on the same idea than the one I built, so I ordered it.  Bad luck I guess, the barrel was honed incorrectly for the 98's front bolt.  I had to return the barrel because it was recalled.

If you happen to come accross the Trinity Recon 14" barrel w/ Suppressor.  DO NOT BUY IT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kungura Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:14am

Originally posted by motopsycho650 motopsycho650 wrote:

I did. 
Believe it or not, it worked when it didn't break balls.  It would break about 25% of the paint shot through it. 

so ....  it worked great for 3 shots? then it would chop??? wow...that seems like a great way to spend a day paintballing

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oppiee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2008 at 11:59am
Curious,
Why did it chop?
How is it mounted?

Cheers,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JAS_Paintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2008 at 3:35pm

stop talking about silencers...or Snake will hurt you

Unless you have a Class III FFl license, silencers are illegal to own. Even talking about fake ones is not a good idea.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 February 2008 at 7:21pm
iv never had anny probles when i talked bout them, jus make shure you say that its a MOCK-silencer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oppiee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 12:05am
Jas seriously, there is nothing wrong talking about silencers.
Yes it is illegal, but no one said im making a real one. I am not breaking any law when i talk about it. Just trying to make one to make my marker look nicer.
I personally see no issue here. Just trying to get some tips on making one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopsycho650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 7:18am
Originally posted by JAS_Paintball JAS_Paintball wrote:

stop talking about silencers...or Snake will hurt you

Unless you have a Class III FFl license, silencers are illegal to own. Even talking about fake ones is not a good idea.



Actually, it is a state to state based law.  I have asked a few cops who are friends of the family, and all said if it's not for a real, bullet firing gun, it's not illegal.

In fact, if paintaball silencers were illegal, I dought you'd see a ton of suppressors & barrels with suppressors being sold for PB guns.

P.S.  There is no such thing as a silencer for a real gun or otherwise.  The little whistle sound you see in the movies from a "Silenced gun" is BS.  A suppressor is the correct term, because it is not silenced, it's just quieter that it was before.  A real gun suppressor slows the bullet so it boes not break the sound barrier.  A PB suppressor just re-directs the air & noise behind the ball to make it sound quieter.

I think the reason it broke balls was, either the PVC pipe I used was a touch too small for paintballs, or I didn't get the PVC pipe lined up perfectly.  Either way, Like I said, it was fun to make, and I learned a lot while making it.  I just wish the final result would have been a bit better.

The one I made was an attachment to add to the existing barrel.  That was what made it difficult.  An easy alternative is to take a barrel with porting already in it, and make a PVC cover for it.  You want it to be as sealed as possible with the tip of the barrel.  Then you want a little bit of space between the cover and the porting.  And finally, give the air holes to escape at the rear of the cover.  This will trap some of the air (noise) traveling behind the ball and force it back towards you instead of your target.

Don't expect more than a 50% noise reduction, max.


Edited by motopsycho650 - 28 February 2008 at 8:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Papiriqui629 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 7:45am
Also check the laws of the state you are in because they are not the same everywhere regarding supressors. Some places you do not need a special lisence to have a supressor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oppiee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 9:42am
Thanks for that info.

Like i said before i am not looking for any noise reduction whatsoever, its purely cosmetic purposes.

Because I have a Jj ceramic, I want to know how to not block the porting at the end of the barrel so I dont mess up the trajectory of the ball.


Thanks again.

Cheers,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 11:20am
Originally posted by motopsycho650 motopsycho650 wrote:

Actually, it is a state to state based law.  I have asked a few cops who are friends of the family, and all said if it's not for a real, bullet firing gun, it's not illegal.


Originally posted by Papiriqui629 Papiriqui629 wrote:

Also check the laws of the state you are in because they are not the same everywhere regarding supressors. Some places you do not need a special lisence to have a supressor.


Both wrong.  While suppressors/silencers are legal in 35 states, federal law still applies.

Edited Note:  I am of course referring to U.S. federal law based upon the references to "states" in the post above.  People in other countries will have to do their own research.

Cut and paste from the BATF FAQ page(Red font color added for highlighting.)

(M1) The types of firearms that must be registered in the National Firearm Registration and Transfer Record are defined in the NFA and 27 CFR, Part 479. What are some examples? [Back]

Some examples of the types of firearms that must be registered are:

Machine guns;

The frames or receivers of machine guns;

Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns;

Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun;

Any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;

Silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer;

Short-barreled rifles;

Short-barreled shotguns;

Destructive devices; and,

"Any other weapon."

A few examples of destructive devices are:

Molotov cocktails;

Anti-tank guns (over caliber .50);

Bazookas; and,

Mortars.

A few examples of "any other weapon" are:

H&R Handyguns;

Ithaca Auto-Burglar guns;

Cane guns; and,

Gadget-type firearms and "pen" guns which fire a projectile by the action of an explosive.

[26 U.S.C. 5845]

(M30) Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms? [Back]

The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See Questions M15 and 16 for application details

If I have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, who should I contact?

Please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a), 27 CFR 479.11]

(M15) What are the required transfer procedures for an individual who is not qualified as a manufacturer, importer, or dealer of NFA firearms?[Back]

ATF Form 4 (5320.4) must be completed, in duplicate. The transferor first completes the face of the form. The transferee completes the transferee's certification on the reverse of the form and must have the "Law Enforcement Certification" completed by the chief law enforcement officer.

The transferee is to place, on each copy of the form, a 2-inch by 2-inch photograph of the transferee taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable). The transferee's address must be a street address, not a post office box. If there is no street address, specific directions to the residence must be included.

If State or local law requires a permit or license to purchase, possess, or receive NFA firearms, a copy of the transferee's permit or license must accompany the application. A check or money order for $200 ($5 for transfer of "any other weapon") shall be made payable to ATF by the transferor. All signatures on both copies must be in ink.

Fingerprints also must be submitted on FBI Form FD-258, in duplicate. Fingerprints must be taken by a person qualified to do so, and must be clear and classifiable. If wear or damage to the fingertips do not allow clear prints, and if the prints are taken by a law enforcement official, a statement on his or her official letterhead giving the reason why good prints are unobtainable should accompany the fingerprints.

Forward the completed application and appropriate tax payment to the Bureau of ATF, P.O. Box 73201, Chicago, IL 60673.

Transfer of the NFA firearm may be made only upon approval of the ATF Form 4 by the NFA Branch. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the tax application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Upon approval of the ATF Form 4, the transferor should transfer the firearm as soon as possible, since the firearm is now registered to the transferee.

[26 U.S.C. 5812, 27 CFR 479.84-86]

(M16) How does an individual obtain authorization to make an NFA firearm? [Back]

Prior to making a firearm, the individual must submit ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm, to the Bureau of ATF, NFA Branch, and receive approval. The applicant must follow the procedures described in Question M15 concerning photographs, fingerprints and certifications. The applicant must forward the original and a duplicate of the form along with a check or money order for $200 made payable to the Bureau of ATF. If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. If the application is denied, the tax will be refunded.

Applications to make a firearm will not be approved if Federal, State, or local law prohibits possession of the firearm.

[26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 479.61-65]


TL;DR version of above information:  Paintball silencer = firearms silencer.  Possession of silencer without proper federal authorization/payments is illegal.  Authorization will not be granted for persons in states that prohibit silencers.

Other interesting information in links below:

Link to airgun silencer case.

Wiki article.  (Decent overview of state and local restrictions.)

Paintball silencers are a sensitive subject that could land people in a lot of trouble.  In the future people should refrain from posting on the subject if they have failed to research it or lack adequate knowledge of it.

IBL.


Edited by Mack - 29 February 2008 at 11:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 12:58pm

Mack, I think IBL is a little premtive in this thread.

As long as the talk does not spiral into talk about REAL silencers, it is prefectly fine. Just taking a Solid metal block and boring it out would be perfectly legal, however if you start adding baffles or any other parts that will give it silencing abilities then you are breaking the law. This post isn't anywhere close to treading the line IMO, yet...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Snake6. Snake6. wrote:

Mack, I think IBL is a little premtive in this thread.



I'm basing my assumption on previous experience and the inaccurate information already being offered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6. Snake6. wrote:

Mack, I think IBL is a little premtive in this thread.



I'm basing my assumption on previous experience and the inaccurate information already being offered.

Point well taken. I'll just keep an eye on this thread and see where it goes..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by Snake6. Snake6. wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6. Snake6. wrote:

Mack, I think IBL is a little premtive in this thread.
I'm basing my assumption on previous experience and the inaccurate information already being offered.
Point well taken. I'll just keep an eye on this thread and see where it goes..
I leave the matter in your capable hands then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopsycho650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 2:34pm
Okay, Mack seems to have a powerful piece of info he posted.  I'll agree, it may be illegal.  I'll disagree that any cop would actually do anything provided you weren't doing anything else illegal with a paintball gun.

This is just me being me, but Denver still has a law in the books that it is illegal to drive a black car on sunday.  Aspen has a law that says you cannot fire a catapult within city limits...
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Originally posted by motopsycho650 motopsycho650 wrote:

Okay, Mack seems to have a powerful piece of info he posted.  I'll agree, it may be illegal.  I'll disagree that any cop would actually do anything provided you weren't doing anything else illegal with a paintball gun.

This is just me being me, but Denver still has a law in the books that it is illegal to drive a black car on sunday.  Aspen has a law that says you cannot fire a catapult within city limits...

It isn't an outdated state/local law, it is the federal government ignoring the 2nd amendment rights of American citizens due to fear of firearm usage.

The federal government/ law enforcement officials will enforce laws regulating silencers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 February 2008 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by Commander_Cool Commander_Cool wrote:

Originally posted by motopsycho650 motopsycho650 wrote:

Okay, Mack seems to have a powerful piece of info he posted.  I'll agree, it may be illegal.  I'll disagree that any cop would actually do anything provided you weren't doing anything else illegal with a paintball gun.

This is just me being me, but Denver still has a law in the books that it is illegal to drive a black car on sunday.  Aspen has a law that says you cannot fire a catapult within city limits...

It isn't an outdated state/local law, it is the federal government ignoring the 2nd amendment rights of American citizens due to fear of firearm usage.

The federal government/ law enforcement officials will enforce laws regulating silencers.


Yeah, there are several cases of raids being conducted against businesses producing silencers for paintball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote motopsycho650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 7:46am
I know this is not an outdated law.  I was just making a joke about the whole thing, because that is what this law seems to me, a joke.

Anyways, thank you Mack for the detailed info.  I would personally like to learn more about what constitutes a "silencer."  There has to be a line there of what can be done, and what can't.

On one hand, any barrel with porting or a muzzle break could be a "silencer."  The ports deflect the air/noise away from the gun.  Tippmann has even encased the ports of the barrel inside a shroud in the X-7 in order to further mask the sound of the gun.  If this idea is illegal, how is it that one of the biggest PB companies in the world can get away with it?

The concept I was talking about, further diverting the air caught by the ports has already been produced & sold. 

Trinity 14" Recon Barrel w/ Suppressor

This barrel I bought to try out because it was the same principal as the suppressor I made back in the day.  DO NOT BUY THIS BARREL FOR A M98 or 98C.  The latest batch of these barrels was re-called because they lacked the proper honing for the front bolt.  It sucks I didn't get to try it out.

The simplest idea is to simply take a 20 oz or 1 liter soda bottle.  Cut a hole out from the bottom and attach the cap end to the barrel.  As the PB travels through, the bottle traps the air/noise behind it, and therefore creates a quieter sound.

None of these ideas come anywhere close to the physics used in creating a real gun silencer.  Like I said, I want to know where the line is that we can't cross.  At this point, no one knows where that line is, and the language used in the laws is a scare tactic so that no one even attempts to get close to that line.


Edited by motopsycho650 - 29 February 2008 at 8:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 February 2008 at 9:09am

Originally posted by motopsycho650 motopsycho650 wrote:

None of these ideas come anywhere close to the physics used in creating a real gun silencer.  Like I said, I want to know where the line is that we can't cross.  At this point, no one knows where that line is, and the language used in the laws is a scare tactic so that no one even attempts to get close to that line.

You have never heard of a soda bottle silencer have you?

The line is drwan when it can be converted to be used on a real gun. If you can somehow modify it to work with real guns it is illegal. Barrels with porting really can't be modified to help reduce the report of a real weapon, so they are allowed. The moment you start making custom modifications you start treading the line. The moment you make any "can" type suppressor that isn't a solid metal block you have crossed the line. If it can be modified in any way to suppress a real firearm you are breaking the law, its best not even to tread the line.


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