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Topic ClosedMILSIM and military = faux pas?

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ShortyBP View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:24pm
Sniper debate aside (because it's a waste of time... might as well argue about the existance of God or which came first, the chicken or the egg)... in regards to the original topic:

Use of paintball for training exercises is indeed real... but as stated, limited. It's too difficult to mimic true firearms using equipment that's limited to 100ft effective ranges. Even for CQB training, the fact that you're not gaining weapons familiarization detracts from the benefits of "impact" training. Simunitions fills this slot better, and I'd assume it's use is more widespread than .68cal commercial paintball equipment.

The only actual use I personally know of where .68cal paintball equipment is utilized, is some semi-local convoy training for Guard/Reserve units. Use might very well be more widespread than that... but I'd hope not too widespread. It's better than nothing... but I don't feel it's a good training tool compared to simunitions or even MILES.

Edited to add:
Originally posted by kungura kungura wrote:

my initial post was, paintball was/is used as a form of training
And you are correct, sir.

Edited by ShortyBP - 23 February 2008 at 9:27pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:27pm
Your missing my point. It is not widely used, and is not very effective. That was my point. In your original post you saying in very board terms about the use of paintball and specifically milsim paintball in training. What you said was very misleading and could be misconstrued very easily by the younger members of this forum. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:29pm
Isn't that what the T&O section of the forum is for? To discuss our views, thus "Thoughts and Opinions", yet I have not really been afforded the opportunity to do just that, seems a bit contradictory.
"One Shot, One Kill, may it be a speedball player lost in the woods"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:35pm

Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

which came first, the chicken or the egg)...
Edited to add:
Originally posted by kungura kungura wrote:

my initial post was, paintball was/is used as a form of training
And you are correct, sir.

 

The EGG i belive.  thank you for your post, and acknowledgment.   Simunitions is something, i have to admit, i'm not fully aware of, so i come to you (plural), that are all knowing,  enlighten me on the topic (alternatively you can give me the primadonna response : "USE THE SEARCH"),

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Isn't that what the T&O section of the forum is for? To discuss our views, thus "Thoughts and Opinions", yet I have not really been afforded the opportunity to do just that, seems a bit contradictory.

Yes, but as god said, your arguments have already been rebutted in other threads. Search around and you will find them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by kungura kungura wrote:

Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

which came first, the chicken or the egg)...
Edited to add:
Originally posted by kungura kungura wrote:

my initial post was, paintball was/is used as a form of training
And you are correct, sir.

 

The EGG i belive.  thank you for your post, and acknowledgment.   Simunitions is something, i have to admit, i'm not fully aware of, so i come to you (plural), that are all knowing,  enlighten me on the topic (alternatively you can give me the primadonna response : "USE THE SEARCH"),


Simunitions use paint filled rounds for your standard weapons receiver, You use them exactly like real rounds, the only modification that is required to your weapon is a brass tube that slides down your barrel to sleeve it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:42pm
does it hurt? can it be fatal? is gunpowder used?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:44pm
Yes, I guess anything can be fatal, and yes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:46pm
Like I said Snake, I've read the other threads. I've done my homework on this site for months. Fact of the matter is that at the mention of the so-called "S" word a "click" of forumers get their panties in a bunch. Now whether or not you believe you have answered all arguments is up to you, but like I said before, I have answers, not arguments.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:48pm
Simunitions are really Expensive. They require Special Upper Recievers and their main problem is that the round is a like an oil crayon encased in clear plastic. The Round sting like Hornets and the wind makes them go all over the place.

When I was in the Marines as part of SPMAGTF-X Urban Warrior I shot more of these than I can remember. At one point one of the Majors told us we blew though a Million Dollars worth of the Stuff. They found them to be as close as real combat as you can get since the Rounds have real recoil since they have a small powder charge and are fired by striking the Primer.

It's the costs that keeps them out the regular training rotation and even then only Units in their "Workups" for Deployment usually get them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Like I said Snake, I've read the other threads. I've done my homework on this site for months. Fact of the matter is that at the mention of the so-called "S" word a "click" of forumers get their panties in a bunch. Now whether or not you believe you have answered all arguments is up to you, but like I said before, I have answers, not arguments.

Ok, fine.

PM me your so called answers. I will tear them apart.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Like I said Snake, I've read the other threads. I've done my homework on this site for months. Fact of the matter is that at the mention of the so-called "S" word a "click" of forumers get their panties in a bunch. Now whether or not you believe you have answered all arguments is up to you, but like I said before, I have answers, not arguments.


Do you make any Large Games? I dont mean like small weekend games but any of yearly games that are played in Big Fields.

I'd make quite a few each year. All over the East Coast since 2000 and I have yet to see one 'Sniper' I seen many wannabes and keyboard commandoes but not one single one that has made any diference in any game. While well writer thesis on how you somehow managed to achieve something that actual Marine Scout Sniper that I play with hasnt been able to do would be nice I am from the Show me School.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 9:59pm

lol @ keyboard commandos. nice one.

I had no idea the S word was blasphemy around here.  what's the big idea? if one prefers to shoot from further away than the front line players, doesn't that make one a sniper? 

now whether you're accurate with each shot or not, matters not since if he doesn't kill, he'll be killed. atleast he killed, or got killed as a sniper.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:05pm

Now Elvis did I once mention which games I play in? Does someone only exist in "Paintball" if he plays in the big games that you play in? Now I believe the argument is do "They" exist in paintball, not do they make a difference. They certainly do exist whether they're at big games or not.

And the answer is yes I do make big games about three times a year. Most big games if not all are "Spray and Pray" contests, which caters to most field selling event paint at $65 a case.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:13pm
How is it that whenever this topic comes up everyone has a friend that is a Marine Scout Sniper? There must be these guys on every corner, or one guy with a million paintball buddies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Nice post, the "Regulars" will never change their views.

My first post was non-paintball. And I'm very aware of how things work around here. I've been monitoring for months. For the fist few it was kind of enjoyable, seeing some of the "comments" from one to another, I just figured I'd join in.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Now Elvis did I once mention which games I play in? Does someone only exist in "Paintball" if he plays in the big games that you play in? Now I believe the argument is do "They" exist in paintball, not do they make a difference. They certainly do exist whether they're at big games or not.


And the answer is yes I do make big games about three times a year. Most big games if not all are "Spray and Pray" contests, which caters to most field selling event paint at $65 a case.



So in other words, You don't play big games where your skill and theory as a 'sniper' would be put to test. If your gonna make claims your are going to need to back them with proof more than flawed logic and gross misinterpretation of Military Doctrine. Sometime it just has to be about putting your money where yoru mouth is.

I play hard and I shoot an E-Grip. yet I have never shoot more than a case of Paintball an Event and usually Bring Home Paint. If people are spraying and praying makes it all that much easier to take them out with sound stratergy and working the envelopment. Of course it's always easier to put the blame on paint prices even thou they are cheaper now and of higher quality than they have ever been. Playing since 1995 i can personally atest to this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:15pm

Just a side note to Snake and Elvis, I never once said I was a "S" nor do I claim to be, I'm just looking for a healthy debate from the "best" the Tippmann forum has to offer.

"One Shot, One Kill, may it be a speedball player lost in the woods"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by BaldBird BaldBird wrote:

Just a side note to Snake and Elvis, I never once said I was a "S" nor do I claim to be, I'm just looking for a healthy debate from the "best" the Tippmann forum has to offer.



I assume the S word is **edited**
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2008 at 10:19pm

Like I said I make it to about 3 big games a year, and I am not a "Sniper", I play the same way I always have, I don't shoot an E-grip and I too don't go thru anywhere near a case. Now you feel obviously that Ive personally attacked your play, I never once said you are "Spray and Pray" so you shouldn't get so worked up about it.

"One Shot, One Kill, may it be a speedball player lost in the woods"
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