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Dye Playa View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2008 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by Ceesman762 Ceesman762 wrote:

Now I feel old, I did Corps time from 87 until 92.

"Of course, the majority of the ones I know are firearms instructors/gunsmiths with the NYPD."

We may know some of the same people.  My father was a cop at the 40th in the South Bronx.


South bronx, huh. I probably know a few people who your dad busted lol.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 8:02am
Originally posted by Ceesman762 Ceesman762 wrote:

Now I feel old, I did Corps time from 87 until 92.

"Of course, the majority of the ones I know are firearms instructors/gunsmiths with the NYPD."

We may know some of the same people.  My father was a cop at the 40th in the South Bronx.



Ever spend any time at the range out there on City Island? Rodman's Neck? My father in law is the senior firearms instructor out there.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 11:50am
Have not been on a police range. My father locked up Curtis Sliwa, you know him?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 12:00pm
Arming the police so they can effectively do their job? Sounds logical!?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Ceesman762 Ceesman762 wrote:

Have not been on a police range. My father locked up Curtis Sliwa, you know him?

Nope, not that I'm going to say names anyways though lol.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 12:08pm

Curtis Sliwa of the Guardian Angels.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 2:42pm

Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

The military used to have a device that limited M16s to semi-auto for use in riot control situations.  (I can't remember the terminology for it unfortunately.)   I have no idea if something like that could be designed for the MP5.  If it could, that would be my suggestion.


The Selctor switch. It does have "Safe, Semi and Full Auto" on the Navy Trigger groups. Standard HK trigger groups have Safe and Semi or white S & red F.

Ha, Ha.  I was hoping that you were one of the people who might have been around long enough and had the right experience to know what I was talking about.  All I can say for sure is I don't remember them being in the inventory or being mentioned in training after we upgraded to the M16A2.

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Here's a few thoughts on the AR vs MP debate that seems to be coming back up.

Primarily, it is far easier for police to procure hollow-point and blue-tip rounds (energy dispersal rounds) in a pistol caliber that will keep them from shooting through walls with deadly force than getting a long-rifle round that will do the same.

Secondly, aiming an AR takes more practice, even for medium range combat situations. My girlfriend could put 90% of the rounds in the 10 ring at 50' with an MP-5, and she's only fire 1 round in her life. The MP-5 is inherently easier to be accurate with due to it's set up and low-recoil. Lack of muzzle rise also contributes to it's stability as a close to medium range weapon system. The argument brought up earlier about police only making it to the range 2-4 times a year works counter to the AR argument considering this.

Thirdly, the vast majority of situations where a weapon of greater capability than the standard-issue side-arm is needed tend to be close-combat situations, be it dealing with a school/bank shooting situation, or more commonly serving a warrant or performing a raid on a domicile. The length of the AR series in that situation is counter-productive. The compact size of the MP-5, or any other sub machine gun for that matter, makes it much more ideal for entry situations and close-to-medium quarters combat.


Tallen, nicely put.  I quoted the entire post just because it explains the comparison of the weapons in question so well.  One of the things I always find amusing about discussions such as these is how strong the opinions are of some people who demonstrate very little actual knowledge of the subject. 

As an amusing side note one of my more rabidly anti-gun friends thought that semi-auto pistols should be banned because they use the same ammunition as assault rifles.  I eventually figured out that he gained this bit of information from playing the Half Life games.  To be fair, I knew an individual on the other side of the gun control issue who once told me that the second amendment came about because of the civil war.

To get back to the original subject (sort of) I have to wonder how many of the forum members who argue against giving law enforcement better weapons to defend themselves with/perform their duties in life and death situations also view paintball pistols as useless and would never use one in the much less serious realm of paintball because of the disadvantages inherent to them.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 4:11pm
British police don't carry guns at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 4:31pm
Special units of the British Police do carry handguns, mainly the ones on airport security
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 5:07pm
I don't think they should have them, as a person who spends several nights in Wayne, goes to school there, and works there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

British police don't carry guns at all.



Good job at being totally un-informed.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

British police don't carry guns at all.



Good job at being totally un-informed.


Good job at being a complete tool.  Again.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

British police don't carry guns at all.



Good job at being totally un-informed.
Good job at being a complete tool. Again.


Ironic.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

British police don't carry guns at all.



Good job at being totally un-informed.
Good job at being a complete tool. Again.


Ironic.


Ironic?  Am I the one spouting off like an expert on matters that I know little to nothing about?  Please, never reproduce, although I don't think that concern is high, I'd rather not risk it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:20pm
I Skillet

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:27pm
well its true that the british don't carry guns. it's sort of like that robin williams skit; "they just say, 'stop! or i'll yell stop again!'"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by oreomann33 oreomann33 wrote:

British police don't carry guns at all.



Good job at being totally un-informed.
Good job at being a complete tool. Again.


Ironic.
Ironic? Am I the one spouting off like an expert on matters that I know little to nothing about? Please, never reproduce, although I don't think that concern is high, I'd rather not risk it.


Who are you to say what I do and do not know?

Just because you don't agree with some of my opinions doesn't mean they are wrong because they are simply that: opinions.

Please, quit acting like a jackass macho man on the internet, it does nothing for you.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by GI JOES SON GI JOES SON wrote:

well its true that the british don't carry guns. it's sort of like that robin williams skit; "they just say, 'stop! or i'll yell stop again!'"

Not all British Police officers carry weapons, but some do. Also Britain's laws involving the use of military in domestic situations are completely different than that of the US.

Also it is basically illegal to own a gun in Britain so there are alot less firearm related incidents.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by GI JOES SON GI JOES SON wrote:

well its true that the british don't carry guns. it's sort of like that robin williams skit; "they just say, 'stop! or i'll yell stop again!'"


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm




Edited by Linus - 15 February 2008 at 10:48pm

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2008 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by GI JOES SON GI JOES SON wrote:

well its true that the british don't carry guns. it's sort of like that robin williams skit; "they just say, 'stop! or i'll yell stop again!'"


Actually, it's not true. While the standard police "bobby" in GB doesn't carry a side arm while on a walking route, they do possess fire arms. As the current system stands, at any given moment, there are roving patrol cars called armed response units which patrol neighborhoods in larger cities and act as regular patrol units in smaller suburban and rural areas. These patrol units carry 3 officers per unit in the city, all armed with extra armaments in the vehicles should officers on the scene require firearms. In rural situations, they typically are manned by 2 constable teams. The standard issue small arm for the ARU is the H&K MP5. They may also carry more specialized weapons such as the MSG-901 and G36C as well as Remington pump-action shotguns to make materiel available to the officers on the scene or in route should a situation arise when specialize weapons would be needed.

Units patrolling airports and other high-security-risk areas are generally armed with sidearms or sub-machine-guns as well. The British Nuclear regulatory agency police are also constantly armed as are the Ministry of Defense police. The only other force that carries their own side arms at all times is the Northern Ireland police force.

While they may not openly carry on the beat, weapons are available at a moments notice. The police in GB have come under scrutiny in recent years for not arming their every-day police forces as it has resulted in a rise in officer casualties as well as the fact that the violent crime and gun-crime records of the past 25 years have been proven to be falsified (artificially low) and there is a belief that many of the violent crimes/murders could have been prevented if an officer had ready access to a fire-arm to prevent the perpetrator from being able to carry out further acts rather than have the officer need to enter a hand-to-hand combat situation with said perp.
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