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pb125
Platinum Member
1 language strike, 10/15 Joined: 10 January 2004 Location: RAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Status: Offline Points: 8557 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:43pm |
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Wouldn't swat get called in for a massive school shooting? |
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¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Gold Member
This title is just way too old Joined: 20 May 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:45pm |
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Don't they already have AR15's? And if anyone happens to know, whats the price difference between AR15s and MP5s?
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.357 Magnum
Platinum Member
Guested and IP banned Joined: 23 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3336 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:45pm |
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Why wait for swat when the cops might already be there with whats needed to possibly save kids from the shooters ?
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Linus
Platinum Member
Strike 1 - language 6.29.10 Joined: 10 November 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7908 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:45pm |
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Not all SWAT officers are full time SWAT, they are patrol and so they have to carry their gear in their cruiser. And in a situation like that, you don't have time to dilly dally waiting for your whole team to arrive. You have to act fast if active shooting is taking place. Edited by Linus - 13 February 2008 at 10:46pm |
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ShortyBP
Moderator Group
A G F Y Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5032 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:46pm |
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They talk about my AR15 as if it were a "machine gun". They cried foul when the Assault Weapon Ban sunset came, because now people can buy automatic weapons. They don't have a clue about firearms. Nor do they care. You can tell them til your blue in the face, that the MP5 shoots pistol-caliber rounds... but they'll still think it's capable of shooting a skyscraper in half (without reloading). Fact of the matter is... they don't like GUNS, period. And they dislike "Scary" guns, like the ones they see in movies, even more. |
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.357 Magnum
Platinum Member
Guested and IP banned Joined: 23 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3336 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:46pm |
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Wayyyy different. A full auto MP5 is in the thousands. A nice AR could be had for $1000 |
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proteus316
Member
Joined: 22 July 2004 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 278 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:47pm |
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You must have missed the article about a NJ police force that also lost 2 mp5s.
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ShortyBP
Moderator Group
A G F Y Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5032 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:49pm |
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And what is Wayne NJs SWAT team supposed to use? Apparently NOT MP5s. The opinion does not say that suburban cops shouldn't have MP5s, except for SWAT. It says suburban cops shouldn't have MP5s. Period. (That includes any kind of tactical team) Because why would a safe, suburban town need a tactical team anyway right? |
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¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Gold Member
This title is just way too old Joined: 20 May 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:50pm |
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Considering many cops already have AR15s, I don't see why they should spend all the extra cash to upgrade to MP5s. AR15s work fine, and very rarely are they ever used. |
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pb125
Platinum Member
1 language strike, 10/15 Joined: 10 January 2004 Location: RAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Status: Offline Points: 8557 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:51pm |
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I'm pretty sure they aren't trying to take away MP5's from SWAT..... |
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pb125
Platinum Member
1 language strike, 10/15 Joined: 10 January 2004 Location: RAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Status: Offline Points: 8557 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:52pm |
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Dude, North Hollywood is so ghetto. Not suburban at all. I hate driving through there. |
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evillepaintball
Platinum Member
Using other peoples accounts isnt nice Joined: 08 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4755 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:53pm |
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it could still happen anywhere
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Belt #2
Gold Member
Strike 2 - Drug use thread Joined: 22 June 2004 Status: Offline Points: 1608 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:56pm |
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Uh... no... Two words: "Riot Control" Shotguns are amoung some of the most flexable weapons out there, and (I'm sorry to say that you're wrong on this) extremely practical given the right situation. Anything from buckshot, birdshot, bean bags, rifled and smoothed bored slugs and sabots, door breeching rounds, rubber "riot rings," Smoke and tear gas grenade launchers, hell... mossberg even makes a 3 or 4 prong climbing hook with a spool of steel cable for climbing purposes. You can even shoot rock salt out of a scatter-gun (usually less-lethal, but painful as anything can be - aside from an actual bullet) If you can fit it into the chamber and fire it with out damaging the barrel or mechanism, chances are it will work in a shotgun (maybe not always effectively, but hey) Targets can be accurately engaged from suprisingly long distances with a rifled, saboted slug. If you know what you're doing, a slug's accuracy at 150-175 yds or less, can rival that of most off the shelf rifles. Shotguns are very practical for most situations, if you ask me, but not all. You'll still need the good old 300 Win Mag for the determined fighters at long ranges, or when shot placement matters. There are a very large number of purpose-built shotguns out there that get the job done very well, but there is just no replacing the medium and high powered rifle category; that's one thing I can aagree on. I'm not bashing your post, just rambling on. Edited by Belt #2 - 13 February 2008 at 11:00pm |
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Most importantly - People suck.
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Hysteria
Platinum Member
Strike 2 - Language, 9/25 Joined: 02 February 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4364 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:57pm |
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LOL, right, because an MP5 could have stopped Columbine. The kids marched through their school killing what ever the pleased, unopposed. A cop with a pistol could have, and eventually did, stop the kids. Again, I assume if the cops had MP5s at VT, that could have been stopped too? Before or after the two hour hiatus in shooting?
So essentially, it is a very, very fast shooting, very large, pistol (drastically oversimplified). Now, what is one reason CCWs are bad? Because people are liable to miss and hit bystanders. What is a fully automatic gun that jumps around moderately bad likely to do in a very populated major city? Perhaps hit bystanders? Also, anyone want to care to explain why they need camo? Edited by Hysteria - 13 February 2008 at 10:59pm |
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ShortyBP
Moderator Group
A G F Y Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5032 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 10:59pm |
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I'm pretty sure they are. At least in this instance. No standard patrolman in a NJ town is gonna have an MP5 as their long-gun. It's fiscally stupid, and given it's specialized use... just a poor choice. If you give a patrolman a long gun... it's either a shotgun, or a SEMI-auto rifle. As a standard-issue long-gun, an MP5 is a terrible choice. It offers little advantage over a handgun aside from rate of fire and a slight bit of accuracy. It's use is best limited for certain tactical engagements. In fact, most departments are already ditching their MP5s in favor of 5.56 platforms (M4/AR) But that said... this is a specialized weapon, for tactical use. Wayne's only use for this weapon, would be with a tactical unit. But as the columnist stated... it's NJ, not Baghdad. Such a weapon is not necessary for the police (even SWAT) and is best left to Navy SEALs and SAS.
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¤ Råp¡Ð F¡rè ¤
Gold Member
This title is just way too old Joined: 20 May 2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:06pm |
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Agreed. MP5s are too scarce and too expensive for police to be using. Stick with AR15s and the like. |
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carl_the_sniper
Platinum Member
Strike 1 - 7/29, Bad Linky Joined: 08 April 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11259 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:07pm |
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No, since all the recent school shootings, it is now made so that the first cop at the scene enters the school no matter who they are. |
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ShortyBP
Moderator Group
A G F Y Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5032 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:07pm |
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Regardless of gun-type... a weapon platform in itself is not going to PREVENT a crime from happening. But a weapon such as an MP5 does give police an advantage in certain situations. The MP5 has been used with great success by many police agencies around the world... and was made as popular as it is, when SAS stormed the Iranian Embassy in London during a hostage situation.
Why do they NEED camo? They probably don't. A standard OD or solid blue/gray might do the job. Camo might certainly provide some benefits depending on the terrain. We're talking surburbia with trees and grass and such... not a completely urban landscape. Camouflage does still provide some bennies. As for full-auto going on a rampage and killing hundreds of innocent bystanders... the MP5 has been in use since the 70s. I don't recall reading a whole slew of news stories complaining about errant MP5 bursts. Despite the negative image... police officers who would be issued such a weapon have gone through extensive training, and scenes like you see in the movies with someone holding down the trigger while sweeping back and forth, is not what happens in real life. Full-auto is a concern for many departments though. Which is why a lot of departments choose SEMI-auto only. To include semi-auto MP5s (and ARs). Virginia State Police are issued M4s... semi-only. Edited by ShortyBP - 13 February 2008 at 11:08pm |
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Susan Storm
Gold Member
Shot at Love Contestant Joined: 13 July 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1352 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:09pm |
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I think Hysteria hit on one major concern of mine here. In my experience, all too many cops don't spend enough time at the range as it is, and they mostly shoot "easy" weapons like 9mm semi-autos. Any full auto weapon, even a cute widdle one like an MP5, requires special training and lots of it in order for the shooter to be actually useful, let alone not dangerous to lots of bystanders. I'm ok with the gun-loving cops having whatever toys they want, but it makes me a little uneasy to consider your average undertrained beat cop carrying a full auto weapon of any kind. AR15s seem to be a good compromise. More firepower when needed, without adding unnecessary danger to random passers-by. |
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"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."
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ShortyBP
Moderator Group
A G F Y Joined: 10 June 2002 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5032 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 11:13pm |
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Perhaps a bit idealistic, in regards to some departments. |
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