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i made a ghillie suit.

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Guillie Suits if well prepared and used can be a big element in a game!
Off course ppl who use then have to be patiente and serious players, cause normally if u sense a hit your out, almost all playing fields use this rule!
Ppl who use then are a breed apart from other players!
Its not that ppl have a sniper wanna be wish, but they do operate alot as one!
I also use this type of game alot, never used a guillie suit cause they are expensive! But i got a teammate who wears one and as used it very effectivly in game!

Someone said here that using it is worthless to the teamplay! Well i cant disagree more! I give u a example among others, of a game we did in a Tournament we have here that my team organizes, the Mil-Sim Circuit of Terceira Island (Its in the Atlantic, part of Portugal, the Azores Islands).

We set him up on our right flank all tuged in among the vegetation, and i set myself up on the left flank with a A5 M82A1 18" barrel waiting for our opponents, while our team engaged and delayed the opfor... Well cause he was there hidding almost invisible to the opfor, he let then pass by him before he turned and started picking then off one by one! Also before he started to fire he was relaying to us by radio how many were they, and where they were so we could prepare our defense well, the opfor numbers were 20, he got 6 of then and never was eliminated from the game! Hes contribution for the team defense efforts was crucial for us to win the game!

Another example, is a game we did in the woods where we had to conquer some papers in a house that was well defended, we had a rule that the sniper could go in the field at the same time as opfor and then we would enter 20 minutes after, but he couldnt engage anyone until the game start! Well he relayed by radio all opfor positions, numbers and defenses enabling us to maximize our attack and winning the game, he took part in the attack taking several opfor out!

Guillie suits have drawbacks off-course, he uses then in the winter, in the summer no, cause its too hot! But if u know how to use it and have the pacience u can be one of or probrably the most important element in your woodsball team!

We take cammo seriously, all our team as their own cammo, we dont use all the same, we leave to team members to choose the cammo they like most! Cammo helps alot to give u the extra seconds u need to take a opfor out! If u can see him before he sees u u probrably will get em...

Marco
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A..HA...A...HA...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

Ghillie suits!
18 Inch Barrels!!
Snipers!!!

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sniper debate time!

Thanks man, it's been so long since we've had a good sniper debate.

I'll leave it up to smarter and greater men to explain.



Edited by carl_the_sniper - 13 April 2008 at 7:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2008 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:

Guillie Suits if well prepared and used can be a big element in a game!

I think "big element" is stretching it, but I can see where they could be useful in certain situations.  I can also see where they would be a pain due to weight issues, snagging, heat issues and noise issues.

Off course ppl who use then have to be patiente and serious players, cause normally if u sense a hit your out, almost all playing fields use this rule!

I take this to mean that a hit is an elimination irregardless of breakage.  Good rule to use with ghillies.

Ppl who use then are a breed apart from other players!

Very true in most cases.

Its not that ppl have a sniper wanna be wish, but they do operate alot as one!

Not really.  They do not stalk targets for hours/days, make eliminations with single shots at ranges that exceed the capabilities of their opponents weapons or eliminate targets of any higher value than the average player.

I also use this type of game alot, never used a guillie suit cause they are expensive! But i got a teammate who wears one and as used it very effectivly in game!

Ghillies can be used very effectively; if the player has hours to make a move on an observant target or is willing to remain motionless.  The first circumstance rarely happens in games and the second effectively removes the player from the game unless an opponent is unlucky enough to wander into the "snipers" field of fire. 

Someone said here that using it is worthless to the teamplay! Well i cant disagree more! I give u a example among others, of a game we did in a Tournament we have here that my team organizes, the Mil-Sim Circuit of Terceira Island (Its in the Atlantic, part of Portugal, the Azores Islands).

We set him up on our right flank all tuged in among the vegetation, and i set myself up on the left flank with a A5 M82A1 18" barrel waiting for our opponents, while our team engaged and delayed the opfor... Well cause he was there hidding almost invisible to the opfor, he let then pass by him before he turned and started picking then off one by one!

In other words, he waited in ambush and attacked them at the most opportune moment.  This is not sniping, it is ambushing. 

Also before he started to fire he was relaying to us by radio how many were they, and where they were so we could prepare our defense well, . . .

This is something any player with a radio and minimal concealment skills could have done.  It is not sniping.

. . . the opfor numbers were 20, he got 6 of then and never was eliminated from the game! Hes contribution for the team defense efforts was crucial for us to win the game!

It sounds like he did good.  What makes this sniping as opposed to flanking and ambushing?

Another example, is a game we did in the woods where we had to conquer some papers in a house that was well defended, we had a rule that the sniper could go in the field at the same time as opfor and then we would enter 20 minutes after, but he couldnt engage anyone until the game start! Well he relayed by radio all opfor positions, numbers and defenses enabling us to maximize our attack and winning the game, he took part in the attack taking several opfor out!

Oh yes, agreements with the opposition that allow the "sniper" free reign to observe the establishment of defensive positions without having to fear discovery/elimination.  That's realistic; it happens all the time in Afghanistan and Iraq.  (/sarcasm)  That's not sniping.  It doesn't even really require skills or courage with the no engagement rule.

Guillie suits have drawbacks off-course, he uses then in the winter, in the summer no, cause its too hot!

If he can get by without it, is it really needed for success?  Or is just to look "cool"?

But if u know how to use it and have the pacience u can be one of or probrably the most important element in your woodsball team!

I believe there are occasions where a single player make a difference in a woodsball game.  However, it will not normally be the "sniper" hiding in the brush in his ghillie because of the following reasons:
  • In most organized games, prepositioning of the "sniper" is not allowed.  This means the "sniper" must get in to position within the time constraints of the game while risking being observed.
    • If the sniper uses the ghillie properly, the game could easily be decided/timed out by the time he achieves position.
    • If he moves rapidly . . .
      • He has negated the advantages of the ghillie . . .
      • While exacerbating the disadvantages of snagging, noise and heat.
  • Experienced opponents, or inexperienced ones who have been "back-doored" a few times will learn to watch their rear.  (Establish and maintain flank security.)
    • Once this happens, the "sniper" is effectively neutralized.
    • His only choices are as follow:
      • To engage at close range if lucky enough to have gotten in to such a position.
        • This gives up his location and results in fire from multiple opponents.
        • The result is elimination.
      • To fire at extreme ranges with a minimal chance of a hit.
        • Ineffective and warns opponents of his presence, increasing rear vigilance.
      • To try to move closer under observation which presents a difficult choice:
        • Move fast and risk certain detection.
        • Move slow and risk falling farther behind.
We take cammo seriously, all our team as their own cammo, we dont use all the same, we leave to team members to choose the cammo they like most! Cammo helps alot to give u the extra seconds u need to take a opfor out! If u can see him before he sees u u probrably will get em...

I agree the last paragraph; camouflage is quite useful in woodsball.  What I don't agree with is your interpretation of sniping.  What you described is merely establishing ambushes and executing flanking maneuvers; both of which are basic infantry tactics.

Marco



Edited by Mack - 13 April 2008 at 10:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoAzorean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 8:37am
Yup! When we use the word "sniper" all ppl tend to bend noses and jump on u! Ah! Ah!

Well i refer always to some of the tasks snipers do in real life! Not being a sniper as real snipers go in paintball cause all markers shoot about the same distance!

I used it cause of the guillie suite!
Off course the efectiveness of the guillie dependes on the camp rules and use of this players by a team! He can be a good element or just a problem or waste of time!

Woodsball is about normally playing in the woods, and if u can make ppl dont see u but u see then, then u got the advantage over then!

We like to call our friend a "marksman" cause thats probrably the closest real life counterpart that we can relate to!

But u cant deny that a guy with a guillie suit, a marker with a long barrel and a tac cap of 50 balls on it, on a position taking out ppl from other team or stalling then on a certain part of the game area resembles a sniper!...

Marco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 10:44am
Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:

Yup! When we use the word "sniper" all ppl tend to bend noses and jump on u! Ah! Ah!

They only do that because you're misusing the term.

Well i refer always to some of the tasks snipers do in real life!

Name one task your paintball "snipers" perform that is actually a sniper mission and not a basic infantry skill.

Not being a sniper as real snipers go in paintball cause all markers shoot about the same distance!

Exactly.

I used it cause of the guillie suite!

So the clothes make the person?  Using that logic if I put on spandex shorts and a belly top I would be a Hooter's Waitress.  (There's a scary thought.)

Off course the efectiveness of the guillie dependes on the camp rules and use of this players by a team!

The most effective use of a ghillie-wearer in paintball is final close defense for the flag station.  The situation requires minimal movement and the scrutiny that any good team will give an area before going for the flag justifies the use of the ghillie.  Of course, this isn't sniping; it is merely a close-range defensive ambush.  If you put the "sniper" at sniper ranges the reduced chance of a hit/break would make him useless in protecting the flag.

He can be a good element or just a problem or waste of time!

Having played with people in ghillies, they are normally a waste of time. 

Woodsball is about normally playing in the woods, and if u can make ppl dont see u but u see then, then u got the advantage over then!

True, but camouflage is just as effective, if not more effective, when movement is required and it is easier to move in.

We like to call our friend a "marksman" cause thats probrably the closest real life counterpart that we can relate to!

It probably is closer to the truth, but the term is usually indicative of at least additional skill/training and improved optics. 

But u cant deny that a guy with a guillie suit, . . .

Which, because it slows the player and can make movement more difficult, can actually prevent eliminations unless the "sniper" is lucky enough to have opponents come to him.

. . . a marker with a long barrel . . .

Which does nothing for range or accuracy.

. . . and a tac cap of 50 balls on it, . . .

Which is merely limiting the effectiveness of the player when he gets into a serious engagement.

. . . on a position taking out ppl from other team . . .

Which is where every player on the field should be trying to be.

. . . or stalling then on a certain part of the game area . . .

Which is actually more akin to suppressive fire and as such is a task assigned to heavy/support weapons; not snipers.

. . . resembles a sniper!...

Yes, I can . . . and I believe I just did.

Marco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:

Yup! When we use the word "sniper" all ppl tend to bend noses and jump on u! Ah! Ah!

They only do that because you're misusing the term.

Well i refer always to some of the tasks snipers do in real life!

Name one task your paintball "snipers" perform that is actually a sniper mission and not a basic infantry skill.

Not being a sniper as real snipers go in paintball cause all markers shoot about the same distance!

Exactly.

I used it cause of the guillie suite!

So the clothes make the person?  Using that logic if I put on spandex shorts and a belly top I would be a Hooter's Waitress.  (There's a scary thought.)

Off course the efectiveness of the guillie dependes on the camp rules and use of this players by a team!

The most effective use of a ghillie-wearer in paintball is final close defense for the flag station.  The situation requires minimal movement and the scrutiny that any good team will give an area before going for the flag justifies the use of the ghillie.  Of course, this isn't sniping; it is merely a close-range defensive ambush.  If you put the "sniper" at sniper ranges the reduced chance of a hit/break would make him useless in protecting the flag.

He can be a good element or just a problem or waste of time!

Having played with people in ghillies, they are normally a waste of time. 

Woodsball is about normally playing in the woods, and if u can make ppl dont see u but u see then, then u got the advantage over then!

True, but camouflage is just as effective, if not more effective, when movement is required and it is easier to move in.

We like to call our friend a "marksman" cause thats probrably the closest real life counterpart that we can relate to!

It probably is closer to the truth, but the term is usually indicative of at least additional skill/training and improved optics. 

But u cant deny that a guy with a guillie suit, . . .

Which, because it slows the player and can make movement more difficult, can actually prevent eliminations unless the "sniper" is lucky enough to have opponents come to him.

. . . a marker with a long barrel . . .

Which does nothing for range or accuracy.

. . . and a tac cap of 50 balls on it, . . .

Which is merely limiting the effectiveness of the player when he gets into a serious engagement.

. . . on a position taking out ppl from other team . . .

Which is where every player on the field should be trying to be.

. . . or stalling then on a certain part of the game area . . .

Which is actually more akin to suppressive fire and as such is a task assigned to heavy/support weapons; not snipers.

. . . resembles a sniper!...

Yes, I can . . . and I believe I just did.

Marco



ah ah ah mental image!!!!!

get it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aceatc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 3:40pm
Basically

90% of the time - Ghillie isn't needed.

Other 10%- In special terrains= Very large area and/or very dense area of vegetation.

If I am kneeling in my camo and someone runs by and shoots me... poo. If I am kneeling in a ghillie and someone runs by me and keeps on running... the suit would be nice to have.


Also, you can fire at long range. Although that takes a lot of practice to shoot that far and be accurate and I don't got that kinda time.


Really it's like that one piece of fun gear that you use every once in a while. Nothing more, nothing less.


Edited by aceatc - 14 April 2008 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by The Guy The Guy wrote:

ah ah ah mental image!!!!!

get it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I can e-mail a pic if you want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 5:59pm
Only if you want my to commit sepoku
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 6:48pm
Oh, I guess I won't then.  (The thought of seeing myself in the mirror as I take the picture makes me cringe anyway.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatGuitarGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2008 at 11:46am
Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:



Guillie suits have drawbacks off-course, he uses then in the winter, in the summer no, cause its too hot!



Wow.  I wish that worked in real life.

Me:"No sir, I would rather not wear my ghillie on this stalk."

CO: "Why not Sgt.?"

Me: "Well sir, it's too hot in the desert.  I would prefer to wear it during the winter"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2008 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:

Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:



Guillie suits have drawbacks off-course, he uses then in the winter, in the summer no, cause its too hot!



Wow.  I wish that worked in real life.

Me:"No sir, I would rather not wear my ghillie on this stalk."

CO: "Why not Sgt.?"

Me: "Well sir, it's too hot in the desert.  I would prefer to wear it during the winter"


It's the tactical moving that really generates heat.  You should ask the insurgents where they're going to be and if you could go out 20 minutes early as long you promise not to shoot anyone until hostilities start.  That way, you could just walk into position unmolested and not put on the ghillie until it was actually needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatGuitarGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2008 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:

Originally posted by MarcoAzorean MarcoAzorean wrote:



Guillie suits have drawbacks off-course, he uses then in the winter, in the summer no, cause its too hot!



Wow.  I wish that worked in real life.

Me:"No sir, I would rather not wear my ghillie on this stalk."

CO: "Why not Sgt.?"

Me: "Well sir, it's too hot in the desert.  I would prefer to wear it during the winter"


It's the tactical moving that really generates heat.  You should ask the insurgents where they're going to be and if you could go out 20 minutes early as long you promise not to shoot anyone until hostilities start.  That way, you could just walk into position unmolested and not put on the ghillie until it was actually needed.


Wow.  Why did I never think of that?

"Hey, yeah, Al Qaeda?  Can I ask where Bin Ladin is, and can you give me 3 hours to get there before you move him? I'm trying to snipe him unmolested, and I promise not to shoot anyone until the "war" has started"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notom66866 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2008 at 11:19pm
Did you know that Mr. Rogers was a sniper in Vietnam.
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Originally posted by notom66866 notom66866 wrote:

Did you know that Mr. Rogers was a sniper in Vietnam.

Mister Rogers was born in 28.  He woulda been a little old to be a sniper in Vietnam, besides, he was red-green colorblind.
He was however an ordained Presbyterian Minister.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 12:40am
Originally posted by ThatGuitarGuy ThatGuitarGuy wrote:

Originally posted by notom66866 notom66866 wrote:

Did you know that Mr. Rogers was a sniper in Vietnam.

Mister Rogers was born in 28.  He woulda been a little old to be a sniper in Vietnam, besides, he was red-green colorblind.
He was however an ordained Presbyterian Minister.


The thought however does produce an amusing scenario:

Setting:  It is midday deep in the jungles of Vietnam.  The heat is stifling; nothing is moving and the only sound is the lazy droning of insects.  Tucked away in a ghillie suit, invisible to the outside world that he is observing through the scope of his sniper rifle is Mr. Rogers.  He seems to be mumbling silently to himself.

"It's a beautiful day in the thick jungle."
"A beautiful day for a target."
"Would one be near?"
"Could one be near?"

Suddenly, movement draws his attention.

"Oh my whatever could that be?"
"Well . . . look everyone, it's Mr. VC."

Mr. Rogers resumes mumbling to himself as he sights in on Mr. VC.

"It's a target rich day out here in the bush."
"A very nice day for a head shot."
"Would you be mine?"
"Could you be mine?..."

"I've always wanted to have a target just like you."
"So step into the light, away from that grove of bamboo."

"So how are you today Mr. VC?"

BLAM!

"Not so good I see."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThatGuitarGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 12:42am
Holy crap Mack.   I haven't laughed that hard in a VERY long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarcoAzorean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 6:39am
Well as real life and desert goes, the arabes have the advantage cause they all wear normally the best guillie for the desert, the robes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 9:56am
Wow. When I thought you couldn't fail any harder...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

Wow. When I thought you couldn't fail any harder...


Remember Snake, there is no such thing as maximum fail.*

*No matter how hard someone fails, there will always be somebody else who eventually comes along and outdoes them.
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