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Topic ClosedX7 Sniper?

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JaLane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: X7 Sniper?
    Posted: 21 January 2008 at 8:45pm

What are some good mods if i wanted to turn my x7 into a sniper?

Money is no factor

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ammolord View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2008 at 8:53pm
ok im gunna get on the boat: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SNIPER IN PAINTBALL. not to be mean but i should get that out of the way. i would put a new barrel on it and maby a red dot sight.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 January 2008 at 9:16pm
You said the s word. Repent.



Get an apex and a giant barrel, that'll make you ub3r l33t d00d.
Indeedly
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 12:09am
You can't turn an X7 into a sniper.  Snipers were made by WGP.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 2:34am
to improve accuracy get a new barrel.  Lapco and J&J are great options especially for the cost.  J&J is gonna be quieter and the lapco louder.  if you want milsim look you are on your own.  Also if you are running CO2 switch up to HPA.  It is more consistant. As for the "S" word trust me dont use it around here.  Just trying to give you fair warning because there are threads that go on for pages upon pages using the dreaded 5nip3r word.
Stay low, run fast, and hope that paintball doesn't hit your...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 9:36am
21" barrel. gillie suit. silencer. nerves like steel!

note: completely kidding, not only are these suggestions ludacris, silencers are illegal.

thejudge is right, even though i hate his name..dg or gd...gets me every time...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 10:58am

LMAO

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 11:15am

Ignore the  trolls.

Welcome to the forum.

The real question is what you mean by "sniper".  As you may have gathered, that word attracts a lot of attention, but it really depends on what you want.

If you can describe what you are trying to achieve, we can perhaps offer some suggestions.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 12:02pm
not again... get an A-5 and the M82A1 body kit if you truely want the "sniper" look

Edited by Ace_Of_Spades - 22 January 2008 at 12:03pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 12:44pm
Throw an Apex on it, get some uber cool body kit, and go hide in a bush.
Pumpker'd; (V.) When a pump player runs up and shoots you at point blank range because you thought 20bps made you good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 3:35pm

Originally posted by sinisterNorth sinisterNorth wrote:

Throw an Apex on it, get some uber cool body kit, and go hide in a bush.

N0 teh Rifled 36" ub3r 1337 5n1p3r is the way to go my friend has 1 it l1k3 sh00ts over 1 m1l3!!!!11111!111ONE!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by sinisterNorth sinisterNorth wrote:

Throw an Apex on it, get some uber cool body kit, and go hide in a bush.


And never come out...

In all seriousness though. If by sniper you mean cosmetically, throw on a body kit or make something yourself (custom is always cooler IMO). If by sniper you mean long-range super-accurate marker, such a thing does not exist. Upgrading your barrel (Lapco or JJ are great makes) will help with accuracy. But range cannot be significantly increased (Flatline and Apex barrels work, but not so much that you become a sniper). You can't snipe. But you can make your marker LOOK like a sniper's weapon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 6:53pm
Ok, you now know not to use "sniper". You have also learned there are a great deal of people on this posting/forum who enjoy nothing more than slapping you for using "sniper" in your screen name and or wanting to be one in a game of paintball. Makes you wish you never had asked??  I am amazed at the way new players get treated, it's amazing some continue to play after such a warm welcome. Get yourself a nice accurate barrel (read some of the posts, I have been asking alot about different barrels) and get some military field manuals about ambush, camouflage, cover/concealment and stalking/movement.  Dressing up your marker will add more weight to it, keep your marker simple and within your needs.  and just for the record, 12 out of 12 snipers don't give a flying **edited** that you call yourself one in a game of paintball. "There are no snipers in paintball" just like there were no snipers in the day of muskets, .52 caliber lead ball ammunition and black powder.  And Yes, I know I will catch alot o **edited** for telling you this.  But, that is what keeps posting interesting.

<<dont dodge the filter only warning>>

Edited by Evil Elvis - 23 January 2008 at 9:20pm
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FUAC!!!!!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2008 at 7:05pm
There were snipers in the time of .52 caliber lead ball and black powder... that's where they came from... The snipers were the soldiers with the new-fangled "rifle" weapons... which gave them the ability to place shots far more accurately than the musket-carrying majority. Check your facts before you make a comment like that.

There are no snipers in paintball. While I agree with you that people shouldn't be as harsh as many are about that fact, physics don't change to allow for people's wishes, or for the business strategy of specops.

JaLane, I'm sorry that people have been so harsh to you about your opinion (I tried not to be in my post). But the consensus here is that paintball sniping does not exist, and you will (as you have learned) take a lot of flak for saying it does. Some people say so in a more aggressive tone than others. They oughtn't. Take a look at my "Physics of Paintball: Part 1" thread in New Players if you want an explanation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 6:32am

Not snipers.  Marksman or sharpsooter regiments armed with rifled barreled "jaeger rifles".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper

Generally, these sharpshooters were trained to aim for officers and NCO's on a battle field.  The idea behind there units was to put as many skilled shooters as they could aiming at these men to increase the chances of removing the command control element from the battle field.  The rifled barrel and a musket ball increased range and accuracy,but a round lead ball, rammed down a rifled barrel usually deformed the ball.  The musket ball was caste from mold.  Marksman/sharpshooters would try to hand select those rounds to further increase their chances of a hit.  Why?  Because the musket ball is not perfectly round.  a lop sided or deformed musket ballfired from either a smooth bore (like a paintball marker) or a rifled barrel (a barrel with lands and grooves and a twist to spin the ball) would decrease the accuracy of that shot. and that's not adding in wind, light, and temperature as additional factors.  The wikipedia link is a start, you may want to go to your local library and read "The Ultimate Sniper" for more on th history of these sharpshooter units.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 6:39am

The History of Military Sniping, and how it relates to the Game of Paintball.

Ok. So I got bored, and I am sick and tried of this stupid sniper debate. I got a Barnes and Noble gift card for Christmas, and didn’t know what else to get so I picked up several books on Military Snipers. Here are my findings.

< -- Note: Due to a problem with my code, you have to Highlight my rifle comparison tables to see them. It’s a bother, but if someone knows how to fix it, PM me. -- >

First lets go over the basics of what a sniper is, and what a sniper is not.

“A sniper…is considered a specialist, whose prime function is to kill selected high value targets at long range using superior skill and armament. A sharpshooter, by contrast, is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

Keep this in your mind as you read the rest of the article.

The American Revolution (1775-83)

Sniping first came onto the battlefield during the American Revolution. Standard infantry of this period were equipped with “Brown Bess” smoothbore muskets. The Continental Congress approves 10 independent companies, armed with long rifles. The men of these companies were the first snipers.

Comparison between the “Brown Bess” musket, and the Long Rifle.

“A soldiers musket, if not exceedingly ill bored (as many are), will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards: it may even at 100, but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, provided that the antagonist aims at him; as to firing at a man at 200 yards, with a common, musket, you might as well fire at the moon.” –British Major Hanger, on the “Brown Bess” musket

 In contrast, the American Long Rifle (as carried by the Irregular companies), was effective in ranges up to 300 yards, and headshots could be achieved at 200. At these ranges American Snipers picked-off high ranking British Officers. During the battle of Saratoga an American sniper brought down British General Simon Frasier from a range of 300 yards. Despite its advantages the long rifle had several disadvantages. Its slow reload time(2 shots a minute), and lack of bayonet fixture made it useful only as a skirmisher weapon, not for use as a standard infantry weapon.

 

Brown Bess

Long Rifle

Range:

80 Yards

300 Yards

Muzzle Velocity:

1100-1300 fps

 ~1600fps

Ammunition:

.75 caliber ball

.40-.70 caliber ball

 

As you can see from the table, the Rifle outranged the common muskets of the time by over 200 yards. Also the muzzle velocity of the Rifle was much higher than that of the Brown Bess.

American Civil War (1861-65)

During the Civil War, the standard infantry rifles were the Enfield(for the south), and the Springfield(for the north). These were muzzleloading rifles with effective ranges up to 500 yards. The confederacy managed to acquire Witworth and Kerr rifles from Europe for their snipers. These rifles had an effective range of well over 1200 yards, and hits were reported at over 1500 yards.

Confederate Snipers were selected in a manner which has been used to select snipers in most present wars. The best men from each infantry regiment entered into shooting competitions. They were required to hit man-sized boards at 500 yards. The best shooters were given the prized Kerr and Witworth rifles. They then went through extensive training in the use of these rifles.

The snipers were warned never to get within 400 yards of the enemy, but to use their superior range, to keep the enemy at a safe distance.

 

Springfield/Enfield

Kerr & Withworth

Range:

 1200+ yards

500 Yards

Muzzle Velocity:

 

 

Ammunition:

.451 Hexagonal Slug

 

 

World War I (1914-18)

US Snipers during World War I used modified, and accurized versions of  the standard service rifle the Springfield 1903, equipped with 2 to 4 power scopes. Snipers during the war mostly sniped from behind the MLR, the main trench line. These snipers were Infantrymen taken off the line, and equipped with scoped rifles. With their rifles they could pick the enemy off 3 or 4 trench lines back from the MLR. The marksmanship standard for infantry of the time was to be able to hit a standing man from around 100 yards. The snipers were trained to hit targets from over 500 yards.

World War II (1938-45)

World War II snipers were selected in different manners during the war. I will concentrate on the Marine Corps Snipers trained at Green’s Farm because the documentation of this school and its snipers is the best. There, snipers were instructed in 5 week courses in marksmanship, camouflage, and field craft. They were trained to approach a target using stealth and to eliminate the target from long distances. These snipers were required to hit a moving target at 500 yards, and to hit a stationary target at 1000. They were equipped much the same way as snipers in WWI were. These snipers used accurized versions of the M1903 Springfield service rifle, the A1 or A3 variants equipped with 2 or 4 power scopes. Marine Infantry qualified at 500 yards.

 

M1 Garand

M1903A3

Range

500 yards

1000yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

Korea (1950-53)

Korea, in the latter part of the war turned into a bogged down war of attrition, looking somewhat like the trench warfare of WWI. This, alongside Korea’s terrain of rolling hills combined to make it prime sniper territory. Sniping tactics in Korea did not change much from the tactics of WWII so I will not elaborate on them. The rifles also remained the same. Snipers in Korea were equipped with 1903A3 Variant Springfield’s, and National Match M1’s(which were used in competition shooting because they were more accurate than the standard M1) Equipped with 4 power scopes(the M1D model). The accuracy of the M1 was not as good as that of the Springfield, due to the need to offset the scope, and have major Eye Relief built-in to the rifle due to the Clip Feed of the M1. These M1’s still were able to reach ranges of 500 yards accurately. In Korea the use of the .50 caliber round for sniping was first seen. M2 Machine Guns mounted with a 10 power scope were able to reach ranges of 2800 yards effectively, Snipers also experimented with .55 Caliber Boy’s antitank rifles modified to take .50 caliber rounds, and mounted with scopes which had the same range as the M2, but was able to be carried by a man whereas the M2’s were limited to fixed positions.

 

M1D Sniper Model

M1903A3 Sniper

M2 Machine Gun

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

2500 yards

Ammunition

.30-06

.30-06

.50 Caliber

 

Vietnam (1965-75)

Vietnam is the perfect example of how a sniper can be employed during combat. The restrictive ROE and vast open fields and rice paddy’s of Vietnam became prime sniper territory. The Marine Corps and the Army both Fielded Snipers. Army snipers were equipped with accurized versions of the M14 service rifle, accurate out to 700 yards. The Marine Corps fielded snipers equipped with Winchester Model 70 Hunting rifles firing the .30-06 cartridge, and later in the war snipers carried the M40, which fired the standard 7.62x51mm(.308) cartridge both of these rifles had an effective range of over 1000 yards. Also snipers used modified M2 .50 caliber machine guns, fitted with scopes. These were accurate to ranges out to 2500 yards. Normal infantry of the time fired the M16 Assault Rifle, and the enemy fired the AK-47 assault rifle. These rifles were designed for infantry combat which takes place in ranges of only around 200 yards, and can only be fired accurately up to 500 yards. Thus snipers were able to operate with impunity from beyond the range of effective return fire of the enemy.

 

M16

Winchester 70

M40

M14 Sniper

Range

500 yards

1000 yards

1000 Yards

700 yards

Ammunition

5.56mm

.30-06

7.62x51mm

7.62x51mm

 

 

 

 

 

Now through all these wars several things have remained in common among snipers, lets analyze these facts:

A sniper acts independently from standard infantry, not as a part of a unit but in a one or two man team.

This is possible in paintball, most of the time in scenario games, I am alone behind enemy lines trying to accomplish a mission. But you do very little if any tactical good for your team waiting in one spot for an entire game, hoping a target of high-value (such as the opposing general) walks by.

A sniper does not act at random, he selects targets of high value and eliminates them.

Targets of High Value in a military sense are:

  1. Officers:
    • Generals
    • Field Grade officers
    • Company Grade officers
  2. Forward Observers
  3. Crew Served Weaponry:
    • Heavy Machine Guns
    • Artillery Batteries
    • Mortar Crews
  4. Non Commissioned Officers
  5. Radiomen

Targets of High Value in a paintball scenario game:

  1. Generals
  2. Tank Crewman (if there are tanks)
  3. Um…. Yeah… that’s all I can think of...

The problem with selecting high value targets in a scenario paintball game is, there are very few. The vast majority of players play independently, not under any command and they do what they want. What officers and team captains there are do not look any different than any other players.

The Sniper fires at targets from beyond the range of return fire by the standard infantry weapons, or from distances that were beyond the training of the normal infantryman.

As you can see from the diagrams of the Sniper Rifles of the Period in comparison to the standard issue infantry weapons, the sniper rifle always has a great deal more range than infantry weapons, and the sniper has been trained to an accuracy standard that is beyond that of standard infantry training.

This is where sniping in paintball fails. All paintball markers except those equipped with the Flatline or Apex systems fire the same distance, around 25 yards or 75 feet. The Flatline will reach ranges of up to 150 ft, but because the ball loses velocity at the same rate as a normal paintball, the chances of getting a break, or a single accurate shot at those ranges are close to zero.

The sniper uses a single accurate shot to take his targets down.

The ammunition expended to kill ratio of a sniper in Vietnam was 1.7 rounds per kill. The average infantryman expended 50,000 rounds per confirmed kill.

It is possible to take targets down with a single shot in paintball. However it is near impossible to eliminate a target with a single shot from beyond the effective range of return fire by the enemy.  Paintballs are imperfect by nature, therefore they do not fly consistently enough every shot to make it possible to get anywhere close to the 1.7 rounds per kill ratio that snipers enjoy.

A sniper uses camouflage and concealment to hide himself from his enemies to eliminate his targets.

No qualms with this, it can be done. Most every scenario paintball player does it. Using camouflage doe not make you a sniper.

 

 

Now as you can see there are several places where sniping fails in paintball. Now look at the definition of a Sharpshooter:

“A sharpshooter… is a rifleman (proficient or otherwise) who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

From SNIPER by Adrian Gilbert

 

Ok, this looks a little more feasible in the game of paintball than the sniper definition doesn’t it?

For paintball purposes we can strike rifleman, because there are no rifles in paintball.

 

“who acts in an opportunist manner, taking shots at the enemy when the chance arises”

 

This sounds feasible. The definition of a sniper that Spec Ops puts forth is one of an “ambush player” that fires from concealment, using camouflage. The problem with the Spec Ops definition of a sniper is that it perfectly describes the definition of a sharpshooter in a military sense.

 

Therefore the definition of a sharpshooter or Designated Marksman fits a lot better in paintball doesn’t it?

 

A sharpshooter takes shots from concealment, shoots at targets as the opportunity arises, and uses a marker that has the same range as everyone else’s. He works with a squad with tactically sound techniques, and is employed in a nature in which he can function both as a full armed and operational squad member and a Designated Marksman. This is not a Sniper. This is a sharpshooter. As stated before simple ballistics prevent one from being a sniper in paintball.

 

A sharpshooter or DM moves with the squad, engaging targets like a normal member of the squad until his precision shooting skills are called upon. A DM would have intimate knowledge of his marker (a good marker for this type of thing would be a high end electro, {because higher end guns are inherently more accurate than a lower end gun} and a good barrel kit, not a Flatline of Apex system as these are known for not being accurate at range), and range limitations, at which point he would be able take precision shots on his target at a longer range than most players would be able to accurately shoot. While he is doing the rest of the team would be laying down suppressing fire as to not allow the DM to be effectively engaged.

 

The fact of the matter is if you think you are a sniper in paintball, you are wrong. The skillset of a sharpshooter or DM, fits paintball a lot closer that the skillset of a sniper. It is also a hell of a lot more effective than taking pot shots at people while camping behind a bush at 200ft and hoping you hit something.

 

 But for those of you who insist that you are still snipers, look at an analogy: You work for a living. Your job is to go to people’s houses and businesses, to pick up their trash and take it to the dump. You drive a Garbage Truck. What would you be called, a Garbage Man, or a Professional Truck Driver?

You would be called a Garbage Man, would you not? As much as you would prefer to be called a Professional Truck Driver, everyone would call you a Garbage Man because it fits what you are doing better than the title Professional Truck Driver does.

 

The skillset of Sharpshooter, or a Designated Marksman is 100% more feasible in paintball than sniping is. Stop fooling yourself.

 

References:

 

SNIPER- Adrian Gilbert

One Shot-One Kill- Charles W. Sasser and Craig Roberts

Marine Sniper- Charles Henderson

 

Authors Note: In my haste of writing this, I may have gotten some minor facts mixed up, or in the wrong place. Please contact me with the correct info if you have something to add, or a correction.





Edited by Snake6 - 23 January 2008 at 6:56am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 2:45pm
^pwnage

Edited by sinisterNorth - 23 January 2008 at 2:45pm
Pumpker'd; (V.) When a pump player runs up and shoots you at point blank range because you thought 20bps made you good.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 3:08pm

Originally posted by sinisterNorth sinisterNorth wrote:

^pwnage

Damn Straight.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 3:51pm
this looks oddly familiar to the ownt status i got, u just got to him faster than me with it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2008 at 4:56pm
tippmannfreak... why do you hate my name?
Stay low, run fast, and hope that paintball doesn't hit your...
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