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Please help w/ A5 low fps, auto-ing, etc

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    Posted: 05 January 2008 at 9:33pm

Two requests: First, I'll give you what happened today and maybe you've got an idea of what's wrong. Second, I'm trying to understand how the marker functions. Please tell me if i'm right / what I'm not getting.

I picked up a used A5 two weeks ago and put a few bags of paint through it testing it out. It worked fine.

I got to the field this morning, took off the rear plate/sling swivel and put a drop or two of (paintball) oil on the rear bolt. I also put a drop or two of oil in the ASA and fired it to move it through the gun.  I took the gun to chrono and immediately started having problems:

I could not get the gun to shoot much more than 200fps. Turned the velocity screw out so far that the gun would just stutter, but never got above 215fps. Turn it in, and it would go down to 170fps.

Here's the big problem: If I got any sort of good high rate of fire going (esp with the E-grip) the gun would go to full-auto on it's own and would continue until I shut off the air with the remote. I disassembled it at the end of the day and found that the rear bolt o-ring was stiff and worn-out. Hopefully this was the issue.

 

So maybe if I understand how the gun operates I can troubleshoot it.Tell me if this is right?

1.The trigger trips the sear, which releases the rear bolt.

2. The rear spring pushes the rear bolt into the valve, striking the valve plunger. The front bolt, linked to the rear bolt, has moved forward and moved the ball off the detent.

3. The valve opens, allows air down the side channels, around the tombstone, and into the front of the power tube, firing the ball.

But what makes the action cycle back, i.e. what forces the rear bolt back to catch on the sear? Does air escape around the valve plunger when it is depressed to force the bolt back?

Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2008 at 9:41pm
The Marker is operated by blowback. Therefore the excess gas used by the marker after firing is redirected back around the valve which pushes on the hammer causing it to recoil. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mubikS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2008 at 10:11pm

Gotcha.

Clarification: Edges on the sear in the mech grip and in the e-grip are sharp and fresh, as is the edge on the rear bolt/hammer.

I believe I have some sort of low pressure: not enough blowback to push the rear bold back to reset the sear, therefore the gun just full-autos. Which o-rings would affect this? The valve-to-tombstone o-ring? The rear valve o-ring? The rear bolt o-ring?  All or any of the above?

Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2008 at 11:14pm
I saw you said you were using a remote line. Try this. Take the tank off of the remote and try it on the marker. If the problem is fixed, it's the remote. To solve the remote issue, when you crank the remote's on/off to the on position, turn it on all the way, then back it off about 1/4-1/2 turn. I'm guessing the actuating pin from the remote line is interrupting the air flow. It's a common issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 3:06am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

I saw you said you were using a remote line. Try this. Take the tank off of the remote and try it on the marker. If the problem is fixed, it's the remote. To solve the remote issue, when you crank the remote's on/off to the on position, turn it on all the way, then back it off about 1/4-1/2 turn. I'm guessing the actuating pin from the remote line is interrupting the air flow. It's a common issue.


If this is the issue, it can be solved by installing a few metal washers around the threads of the on/off knob.  (They prevent the pin from going in as far.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mubikS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 10:42am

The fellas on A50G.net are saying the same thing. Turning the remote knob all the way in would definately be a noob mistake I'd make.

Just went and tried it out. As soon as I get a high rate of fire going, it goes runaway and full-autos.

I'm not real keen on taking off the remote and mounting the tank right to the ASA, as I don't want to lose a whole bottle of C02, then not be able to work on this anymore.

Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 11:06am
How would you lose a whole bottle of CO2? by directly mounting it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

How would you lose a whole bottle of CO2? by directly mounting it?

Seriously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lost Kaim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 6:14pm

I don't understand why the gun would keep full-autoing when there isn't enough air. It should eventually just stop because less and less Co2 is being blown back (resulting in the gun failing to cock) and eventually the bolt is not pushed back far enough to gain the momentum to activate the valve plunger.

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Opsgear G36 Stock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilford Rule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 6:30pm
There is enough air. What he means is that there's not enough pressure coming through, but there is enough pressure in the tank. Odds are the remote is interrupting gas flow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mubikS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 6:38pm

When it goes full-auto, it will cycle no less than 200 times before stopping... I only know this because it burned through a full hopper of paint twice.

This morning, I went ahead and mounted the tank directly on the bottom line and gave it a shot. Same story... full auto until I unscrewed the bottle.

Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilford Rule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 6:43pm
Hmm. Have you tried only your bottle? If the pin valve/regulator on your bottle/tank (your post said CO2, but your sig says HPA. Which have you been using?) is damaged, it's possible that this could happen. Have you tried a new sear spring?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mubikS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 7:18pm
Rule, I have tried the HPA tank, the Co2 tank, with remote or without, with bottomline or without, with e-grip or mech grip, which each have their own trigger group and sear.
Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilford Rule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 7:24pm
Hmm. In that case this is getting strange. I'm gonna start grasping at straws, and just throw out some ideas as they come to my head. So some won't make sense probably:

-Cracked powertube.
-Backwards detent.
-Try a new drive spring.
-Rounded notch in the hammer.

When you say without bottomline, you mean you attached the tank directly to the tombstone right? I assume thats what you meant, but if its not try that.

CPro (w/ polished internals)
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BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mubikS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2008 at 10:41pm

I'm grasping at straws too.

Now I'm not sure my e-grip trigger group is assembled correctly. I took it apart, and found that it has the slider installed (part 98-18), as well as an oval-pivot-hole sear (part 02-35) instead of the sear shown in the e-grip diagram (part TA01135). So I took out the slider and put in the e-grip sear, as shown in the e-grip diagram.

Before I did this, I could use my marker with the e-grip turned off... it just worked like a normal mech grip. Now the trigger will not trip the sear unless the e-grip is on. This seems like a serious un-improvement... as my battery could go dead in the  middle of a game and I'd be screwed.

Um, whiskey tango??

Tippman A5, WAS E-grip, double trigger
14" Smart Parts Teardrop, Flatline
Tasco RedDot, Lapco offset rail
3-pt CAR stock
45/45 System-X, Pure Energy remote
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Papiriqui629 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2008 at 2:22pm

The only thing i could think is, go to a store and buy a new sear for the trigger, sometimes the trigger sear wears off and does not hold the rear piston, also if is not the sear check the piston where the sear is supposed to hold it and see if its a little rounded because that could be it.

Same thing happened to me but with a response trigger so im guessing it could be the same. In my case it was the sear.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Papiriqui629 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2008 at 2:24pm
Also i forgot to mention i dont know if you fixed the FPS problem. I kind of had a little problem like that but mine would come down from 380 fps and it was just the rear cap with the swivel that was bad. I replaced it and got the marker to the velocity i wanted and now i could either take up or down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ilford Rule Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2008 at 4:01pm
Use the e-grip sear. One downfall of electronic markers is exactly what you have said. Carry an extra battery.

Let us know if that works.
CPro (w/ polished internals)
14" Bigshot
BT SBS
Various Rails
NcSTAR D4B
Macro
AA 68/45

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