Way to go New Jersey

Raised 5 with the old fashioned approach. Wait till they become teens, and see if that "time out" approach holds water.

If there is concrete proof that you murdered somebody (or more than one somebodies), and then ate their liver with some Fava Beans and a nice Chianti then you should be sentenced to death.

Dune wrote: Da Hui wrote: If there is concrete proof that you murdered somebody (or more than one somebodies), and then ate their liver with some Fava Beans and a nice Chianti then you should be sentenced to death. That's opinion, and carries no weight as a tool or justice. Revenge does not equal justice.

And what do you suggest happen to said person?

Dune wrote: Da Hui wrote: Dune wrote: Da Hui wrote: If there is concrete proof that you murdered somebody (or more than one somebodies), and then ate their liver with some Fava Beans and a nice Chianti then you should be sentenced to death. That's opinion, and carries no weight as a tool or justice. Revenge does not equal justice. And what do you suggest happen to said person? Well the person obviously cannot be allowed to be a part of society, but we cannot kill him and take the ultimate seizure that cannot be given back.

If he isn't going to be allowed to partake in normal society then why live?

I know I would rather be dead then spend the rest of my life in jail.

You may personally want to die, but that doesn't mean he wants to. Death is permanent and in a country full of regular human beings, we cannot make that choice, even in government, for other people. That is an opinion on the matter. However, for the purposes of debate, I resort back to the Innocence Project.

oldsoldier wrote: What exactly is justice, but a form of social "revenge" for an act against the society. Imprisonment is also a form of sociatal revenge, so by the logic here there should be no justice, do as you wish.

Are you really applying slippery-slope to the criminal justice system? Reminds me of the "men marrying men will lead to marrying animals" excuse.

oldsoldier wrote: There are those in the prison system who by choice prefere death to a long and no chance of parole sentence. I still find it fascinating that the convicted rights totally outweighs the victims rights in our juducial system. The murdered did not get a fair trial, a judicial review, an appeal or two, just an instant and immediate "death sentence" by the individual in question.

It is sad that a person had to die; however, society cannot control that. Simply killing the murderers doesn't control it, it's after the fact.

oldsoldier wrote: Raised 5 with the old fashioned approach. Wait till they become teens, and see if that "time out" approach holds water.

You keep just making declarations like this.  There are millions of people that have been raised without any form of corporeal punishment, and they have turned out no worse than anybody else.

Time outs are not intended for teenagers.  But that does not mean that they are useless. Taking a monolithic approach to child-rearing and discipline is just as idiotic as taking a monolithic and simplistic approach to the judicial system.

Speaking of which - most of the places that do NOT have death penalty?  Less crime than places with the death penalty.  We obviously have to be careful about inferring cause from that simple stat, but it does seem to indicate that a lack of death penalty does not necessarily lead to more crime.

Gatyr wrote: oldsoldier wrote: Again a "Biblical" aspect ot our society, the "eye for an eye" concept, and we know how the current feeling is towards any "relgious" applications in our "new enlightened " society. Hammurabi is considered biblical?

Biblical or not, Hammurabi was actually a societal failure.

Dune wrote: oldsoldier wrote: There are those in the prison system who by choice prefere death to a long and no chance of parole sentence. I still find it fascinating that the convicted rights totally outweighs the victims rights in our juducial system. The murdered did not get a fair trial, a judicial review, an appeal or two, just an instant and immediate "death sentence" by the individual in question. It is sad that a person had to die; however, society cannot control that. Simply killing the murderers doesn't control it, it's after the fact.

I disagree with the death penalty as well. It is too easy on the convicted. It is also incredibly expensive. A quick injection of MPTP (dopamine receptor toxin), surgical removal of the gibblets, eyes and ear drums would be much more fun. Then you don't even need to lock them up, just toss them on the front lawn of the court house and let good samaritans feed the hairy criminal veggie (or let the birds turn him into a carbon offset).