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I can turn you atheist/agnostic

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carl_the_sniper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:



Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Proven how?

Science is faith.<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">I was gonna stop after my quote, but this takes it too far.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">1) Faith is accepting something without ample evidence for it.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">2) Science requires evidence before the scientific community accepts an idea.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">3) Anything scientific that is based on faith is called a hypothesis, and never goes past that if evidence is never found.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">4) If 1% of a theory hasn't been proven, it doesn't necessarily make the proven other 99% false. 99% evidence for a claim (at least enough to make the theory true for most real-world applications) is 99 reasons out of 100 why the theory is not based on faith.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">5) People who attack science (mainly religious people attacking atheists) try to equate science to religion to undermine something they barely understand. "We're not so different, you and I" only serves to weaken the other in the eyes of the dumb.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">
I find that many aethiests are annoying and smug about it.<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">You spelled "atheist" wrong, n00b.</span>


No, you must have faith that what you hear is correct.

To believe science, is faith.

Some of the smartest people in history disagreed publically with what was known as scienticic "truth".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strife_17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:24pm
Can you find me one thing that you can absolutely prove to me does not exist?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:25pm
Since scientific truth these days is grounded in tons of evidence, faith has little to do with believing it.

Faith plays a part when someone tells you something is science, yet it isn't (creationism).

Originally posted by Strife_17 Strife_17 wrote:

Can you find me one thing that you can absolutely prove to me does not exist?



For something to be considered existent, there must be evidence in its favor, not lack of evidence to the contrary. No evidence against is no evidence either way.

Edited by Tolgak - 04 December 2007 at 10:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BooksAndLeaves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Strife_17 Strife_17 wrote:

Can you find me one thing that you can absolutely prove to me does not exist?


It would be silly to find something and prove to you it doesn't exist if I a was able to find something in the first place.

It's almost like trying to disprove the existence of a pencil I am holding in front of your face. It would be pretty hard for you to do that wouldn't it? Maybe if you tried hard enough you could force your mind into a state of insanity to convince yourself the pen isn't there.

The absence of physical evidence should be proof enough, unless you are just nonsensical like that.



Edited by BooksAndLeaves - 04 December 2007 at 10:33pm
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No, you still need faith to believe anything.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White o Light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.



I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BooksAndLeaves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.



I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.


Exactly... carl, what are you saying? Even if something is proven, the only reason you believe it is due to faith? Because that isn't what faith is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strife_17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.



I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.


Would you not need to place faith in the system of measuring time to believe that you are indeed 17 years old? Would you need to believe the people that tell you when your birthday is?

I don't mean to break anyone stones, just playing devil advocate here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White o Light Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by Strife_17 Strife_17 wrote:

Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.



I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.


Would you not need to place faith in the system of measuring time to believe that you are indeed 17 years old? Would you need to believe the people that tell you when your birthday is?

I don't mean to break anyone stones, just playing devil advocate here.


Okay in that case. I believe I have brown hair.

WOULD I NOT NEED FAITH TO KNOW MY EYES SEE THE RIGHT COLOR?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:


Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:


Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.

I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.
Exactly... carl, what are you saying? Even if something is proven, the only reason you believe it is due to faith? Because that isn't what faith is.


You need faith to believe that it is actually proven.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strife_17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:



Okay in that case. I believe I have brown hair.

WOULD I NOT NEED FAITH TO KNOW MY EYES SEE THE RIGHT COLOR?!


Once again wouldn't you need to have faith in what you learned was brown is actually brown?

Wouldn't you need to have faith that your eyes are working properly and you are not colorblind?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

Originally posted by Strife_17 Strife_17 wrote:

Originally posted by White o Light White o Light wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

No, you still need faith to believe anything.



I believe I am a 17 year old white boy. I need no faith.


Would you not need to place faith in the system of measuring time to believe that you are indeed 17 years old? Would you need to believe the people that tell you when your birthday is?

I don't mean to break anyone stones, just playing devil advocate here.


Okay in that case. I believe I have brown hair.

WOULD I NOT NEED FAITH TO KNOW MY EYES SEE THE RIGHT COLOR?!


you would.  i have many arguments with people over colors ranging from navy blue to purple.  these have come up so often with so mny different people that i now believe what they tell me, based on faith.  i have no proof they are right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:

Just because you can make something up in your head, does not at all mean its nonexistence is suddenly unprovable. You don't need to see everything to know that.


where's your empirical evidence?  i thought you needed it before you believed something.  if you're so certain a god doesnt exist, prove it.  show me physical evidence that there isnt one.  and before you tell me to show you evidence there is one, im not the one trying to change peoples minds.  if you're going to try to prove something to change the way people think, you had better be able to back it up.  "because your beliefs are silly" isnt proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BooksAndLeaves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:

Just because you can make something up in your head, does not at all mean its nonexistence is suddenly unprovable. You don't need to see everything to know that.


where's your empirical evidence?  i thought you needed it before you believed something.  if you're so certain a god doesnt exist, prove it.  show me physical evidence that there isnt one.  and before you tell me to show you evidence there is one, im not the one trying to change peoples minds.  if you're going to try to prove something to change the way people think, you had better be able to back it up.  "because your beliefs are silly" isnt proof.


Say I said "I believe in the wobzump. You cannot prove the wobzump does not exist, therefore it exists." Do you not see that this is a ridiculous argument?

Unless you for some reason believe me about the wobzump, how are you to prove to me it doesn't exist? There is no physical evidence for you to say it doesn't exist, so that means it exists.

That's basically what you are saying.

There has to be evidence of the wobzump in order to assert its existence. Because there is none, this is should be reason enough to safely say that the wobzump is imaginary. If you want to call that "faith", I guess you can go ahead, but I honestly don't see how a normal person cannot find that belief in something without evidence to be true is silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Bites Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

if you're so certain a god doesnt exist, prove it. 


Challenging to prove a negative is bad logic. It cannot be done for either side, and therefore shouldn't be used as a defense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:


Originally posted by Man Bites Dog Man Bites Dog wrote:


Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:


Originally posted by Man Bites Dog Man Bites Dog wrote:

If you are asking me to prove the existence of a God, then I cannot, and you know this.Strangely enough though, it does not change my belief system.
Yes, I know, it would take away faith if he was proven, so I guess what I am trying to ask is, how have you proven to yourself or convinced yourself that there is a God in your life?
I am never really dead-set in my ways as far as believing in something or not, so maybe I am a bad person to be trying to do this nifty little "OMG UR CHRISTIAN UR DUMB" thing on, since I tend to agree that Christianity is idiotic. I consider myself a Deist. I believe in a overall supreme being, however I believe that this being does not interfere in everyday life. Whatever this being is, it has overseen the evolution of life on the planet, and created a world of logic and reason based on certain natural principles. This is why I don't believe in creationism, miracles, etc. Part of my belief in this comes through simply looking around at the world and seeing patterns and influences in mankind. Part of it comes through thinking that the absolute disbelief in anything at all (atheism) is a little boring and hopeless. Part of it comes through a personal belief that something is out there somewhere.
Fair enough.Developing a legitimate philosophical belief such as that, having no sort of code of conduct to live by, is okay to me.


I don't see why it's so illogical for a supreme being (IE: God) to have some code of conduct.
Think about it... somewhere along the line something happened to humans. They developed something called morals and values.
It makes perfect sense to me that God was the one who instilled those in us. What other explanation do you have for it?
People say that they just naturally know not to kill people, steal, etc... How? No other animal on Earth evolved with those values, why us?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ctchofday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:22pm
i find it hard to believe that out of all these planets and all this space that there is only one god and he decided to reside on our measly planet... if there were a god he could have made us be able to exist on other planets...

but also to some extent i do believe there is some form of higher being at times... but like Deists, i believe that it doesnt interfere with anything

for the most part i just try to stay out of arguments so i can be happy with people

.... which is what i just didnt do.. oh well

my ex was one of those hardcore christians that was just shy of putting a gun to someones head to try and convert them to christianity

also... there are so many religions, most of which think all others are wrong.. so then again how do you know what is really right

mostly i just dont care and just go about living my life..religion just gets in the way of me living my life...

i spend my sundays chillin out, working on my car, and playing paintball .. not being unhappy dressed uncomfortably in some shurch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:

Just because you can make something up in your head, does not at all mean its nonexistence is suddenly unprovable. You don't need to see everything to know that.


where's your empirical evidence?  i thought you needed it before you believed something.  if you're so certain a god doesnt exist, prove it.  show me physical evidence that there isnt one.  and before you tell me to show you evidence there is one, im not the one trying to change peoples minds.  if you're going to try to prove something to change the way people think, you had better be able to back it up.  "because your beliefs are silly" isnt proof.


Say I said "I believe in the wobzump. You cannot prove the wobzump does not exist, therefore it exists." Do you not see that this is a ridiculous argument?

Unless you for some reason believe me about the wobzump, how are you to prove to me it doesn't exist? There is no physical evidence for you to say it doesn't exist, so that means it exists.

That's basically what you are saying.

There has to be evidence of the wobzump in order to assert its existence. Because there is none, this is should be reason enough to safely say that the wobzump is imaginary. If you want to call that "faith", I guess you can go ahead, but I honestly don't see how a normal person cannot find that belief in something without evidence to be true is silly.


im not saying just because you cant prove it doesnt exist means it does, just that it could.

Originally posted by Man Bites Dog Man Bites Dog wrote:



Challenging to prove a negative is bad logic. It cannot be done for either side, and therefore shouldn't be used as a defense.


when people believe something based largely on faith, and someone else is trying to change their beliefs, the only way to do it is to prove it. 

normally i'd agree that it shouldnt be used as a defense, but given the faith-based nature of the subject under scrutiny, i believe it works in this situation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strife_17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by BooksAndLeaves BooksAndLeaves wrote:



Say I said "I believe in the wobzump. You cannot prove the wobzump does not exist, therefore it exists." Do you not see that this is a ridiculous argument?

Unless you for some reason believe me about the wobzump, how are you to prove to me it doesn't exist? There is no physical evidence for you to say it doesn't exist, so that means it exists.

That's basically what you are saying.

There has to be evidence of the wobzump in order to assert its existence. Because there is none, this is should be reason enough to safely say that the wobzump is imaginary. If you want to call that "faith", I guess you can go ahead, but I honestly don't see how a normal person cannot find that belief in something without evidence to be true is silly.


We aren't challenging your faith. If you were to honestly believe in wobzump no one here would be able to disprove or prove it's existence. Your faith would be enough for you to believe and that's all that matters. Whatever help to keep you chugging along is your own business.

Have you managed to convert anyone here to atheism/ agnosticism yet?

It is quite obvious that faith is a mystery. Whether you have religious, of faith in the goodness of humanity, or just enough faith in yourself to believe you can do whatever it is you do, it should not be anyone's goal to try to change one faith or belief system. As long as they are not hurting anyone, why should it matter if they wake up every morning and gain confidence from looking to the sky and asking God, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, or the sun for guidance? I am not saying that you have ill Intentions but what do you plan to accomplish here? If someone has a belief in something I doubt a conversation on the internet will change their mind. I look at it his way, don't fix what isn't broken, and if people are doing just fine believing or not believing  in whatever it is they do/ don't believe why bother changing it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2007 at 11:35pm
Even the Bible says that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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