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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

I have to agree, Strato definitely has the responsibility portion down that people with a CCW need. Although, Nuclear shows the ideals that some people that have or want a CCW possess. We need more of the former than the latter.

Just for a point however, in reference to Nuclear's comment that "that sideways ghetto crap doesn't work like it does on television," you're actually quite wrong. Shooting from your weaker hand, many people, including myself, have been trained to shoot sideways to increase control. Not always ideal for accuracy; however, gun fights rarely occur outside of 7ft.



No, just no, point and spray in what would most likely be a city is a big no no.

You might be surprised-"gangster" shooting is actually a way to disperse recoil through your wrist instead of straight upwards. It makes your ability to recover shots a little better.



Great for recoil and thats about it, has to be one of the most unsafe things in a heavily populated area, not to mention if you can't take the recoil of a shot or two per second you need to work on your shooting big time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

I have to agree, Strato definitely has the responsibility portion down that people with a CCW need. Although, Nuclear shows the ideals that some people that have or want a CCW possess. We need more of the former than the latter.

Just for a point however, in reference to Nuclear's comment that "that sideways ghetto crap doesn't work like it does on television," you're actually quite wrong. Shooting from your weaker hand, many people, including myself, have been trained to shoot sideways to increase control. Not always ideal for accuracy; however, gun fights rarely occur outside of 7ft.



No, just no, point and spray in what would most likely be a city is a big no no.

You might be surprised-"gangster" shooting is actually a way to disperse recoil through your wrist instead of straight upwards. It makes your ability to recover shots a little better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

I have to agree, Strato definitely has the responsibility portion down that people with a CCW need. Although, Nuclear shows the ideals that some people that have or want a CCW possess. We need more of the former than the latter.

Just for a point however, in reference to Nuclear's comment that "that sideways ghetto crap doesn't work like it does on television," you're actually quite wrong. Shooting from your weaker hand, many people, including myself, have been trained to shoot sideways to increase control. Not always ideal for accuracy; however, gun fights rarely occur outside of 7ft.



No, just no, point and spray in what would most likely be a city is a big no no.

So you've obviously been trained to shoot with your weak hand bar your other hand being incapacitated? Please let me know what style of training you had for it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

I have to agree, Strato definitely has the responsibility portion down that people with a CCW need. Although, Nuclear shows the ideals that some people that have or want a CCW possess. We need more of the former than the latter.

Just for a point however, in reference to Nuclear's comment that "that sideways ghetto crap doesn't work like it does on television," you're actually quite wrong. Shooting from your weaker hand, many people, including myself, have been trained to shoot sideways to increase control. Not always ideal for accuracy; however, gun fights rarely occur outside of 7ft.



No, just no, point and spray in what would most likely be a city is a big no no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 7:49pm

LOL

I can't believe my poopy-stirrer comment turned into this haha

<just say no to unnecessarily sexualized sigs>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

I have to agree, Strato definitely has the responsibility portion down that people with a CCW need. Although, Nuclear shows the ideals that some people that have or want a CCW possess. We need more of the former than the latter.

Just for a point however, in reference to Nuclear's comment that "that sideways ghetto crap doesn't work like it does on television," you're actually quite wrong. Shooting from your weaker hand, many people, including myself, have been trained to shoot sideways to increase control. Not always ideal for accuracy; however, gun fights rarely occur outside of 7ft.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:


 eloquent



Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
el·o·quent      /ˈɛləkwənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[el-uh-kwuhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1.having or exercising the power of fluent, forceful, and appropriate speech: an eloquent orator.
2.characterized by forceful and appropriate expression: an eloquent speech.
3.movingly expressive: looks eloquent of disgust.

[Origin: 1350–1400; ME (< AF) < L éloquent- (s. of éloquéns, prp. of éloquī) speaking out, eloquent, equiv. to é- e- + loqu- speak + -ent- -ent]

—Related forms
el·o·quent·ly, adverb
el·o·quent·ness, noun

—Synonyms Eloquent, fluent, articulate, expressive are adjectives that characterize speech or speakers notable for their effectiveness. Eloquent suggests clarity and power: an eloquent plea for disarmament. Fluent, with a root sense of flowing, refers to easy, smooth, facile speech: fluent in three languages. Articulate characterizes a clear and effective speaker or speech: an articulate spokesman for tax reform. Expressive focuses on rendering intelligible or meaningful the ideas or feelings of a speaker or writer and implies an especially effective, vivid use of language: a deeply moving, powerfully expressive evocation of a city childhood. See also fluent.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)






I'm off to get an ice creme


Edited by Nuclear - 06 September 2007 at 6:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:17pm

Meh, I saw it coming, hence the title. You kind of accept the risk when you start a topic involving religion, politics, abortion, guns, or sniping around here - to nuclear



Edited by stratoaxe - 06 September 2007 at 6:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:15pm

Strato - wow, man, wow.

I bow down to the complete ownage in this thread.  Very nicely done.  Most eloquent CCW thread evar.

*slow clap*

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:15pm
Funny how this went from a thread about a new gun to a 7 page debate in no time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I'm not trying to argue or make you look stupid man, but I just think that your ideas about CCW carry are kind of like sniping in paintball. While yes, you could excercise them, and you would be very wise to do so if the situation affords, in reality that situation would probably never exist. Most encounters are going to be at point blank range. Most people realize that if they're going to rob/assault a person, they need to do so in such a way that they can't fight back.

In a situation like this, the opposing party always has the upper hand. Even if you're carrying ten desert eagles, two of which are strapped to your testicles, and a grenade launcher in your ass.

I'd recommend everyone on here taking a self defense course that covers hand to hand combat before I'd recommend a CHL. It's your right to have one, but it's not always the most practical solution. There are other ways to defend yourself in a life or death situation besides a gun, and many times they're far superior.

 



It's true you should never have to use it in life, and realistically you never will, chances of you needing a gun to win are really slim, personally, if i had a gun i think i would run before i shoot if i could, much rather run and avoid the situation rather than shoot and have to deal with the legal system.

And that is the intelligent way to feel. If you can get away without the loss of human life, then that is really the only option you should consider. I'd have no problem running, CCW flopping in the wind, away from an attacker.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:09pm
why not use the edit button? Double posts make baby elephants cry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I'm not trying to argue or make you look stupid man, but I just think that your ideas about CCW carry are kind of like sniping in paintball. While yes, you could excercise them, and you would be very wise to do so if the situation affords, in reality that situation would probably never exist. Most encounters are going to be at point blank range. Most people realize that if they're going to rob/assault a person, they need to do so in such a way that they can't fight back.

In a situation like this, the opposing party always has the upper hand. Even if you're carrying ten desert eagles, two of which are strapped to your testicles, and a grenade launcher in your ass.

I'd recommend everyone on here taking a self defense course that covers hand to hand combat before I'd recommend a CHL. It's your right to have one, but it's not always the most practical solution. There are other ways to defend yourself in a life or death situation besides a gun, and many times they're far superior.

 



It's true you should never have to use it in life, and realistically you never will, chances of you needing a gun to win are really slim, personally, if i had a gun i think i would run before i shoot if i could, much rather run and avoid the situation rather than shoot and have to deal with the legal system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:06pm

I'm not trying to argue or make you look stupid man, but I just think that your ideas about CCW carry are kind of like sniping in paintball. While yes, you could excercise them, and you would be very wise to do so if the situation affords, in reality that situation would probably never exist. Most encounters are going to be at point blank range. Most people realize that if they're going to rob/assault a person, they need to do so in such a way that they can't fight back.

In a situation like this, the opposing party always has the upper hand. Even if you're carrying ten desert eagles, two of which are strapped to your testicles, and a grenade launcher in your ass.

I'd recommend everyone on here taking a self defense course that covers hand to hand combat before I'd recommend a CHL. It's your right to have one, but it's not always the most practical solution. There are other ways to defend yourself in a life or death situation besides a gun, and many times they're far superior.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Holy crap those are expensive...interesting though, cool design.

My only issue with that is the light grain bullet-an 85 grain bullet in a 9mm would have pretty low impact. Otherwise, cool find, never seen them before.



We picked up 6 rounds for $20.00 but chances are they would never be used.At least one would hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:01pm

Holy crap those are expensive...interesting though, cool design.

My only issue with that is the light grain bullet-an 85 grain bullet in a 9mm would have pretty low impact. Otherwise, cool find, never seen them before.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

But why a warning shot? A warning shot in real life translates into a stray bullet ricochet that could kill an innocent person.

You have to take into consideration adrenaline again-most people, probably including myself, would be so overtaken by fear in a life threatening situation, they'd fumble trying to get to their weapon. A CCW isn't on your side like an officer's pistol-it's in a place that's concealable.

So let's say it's around your ankle. You look up, and somewhere around ten feet from you is a crazed crackhead with a switchblade. Bear in mind he's going to be covering ground quickly. There's no instant reaction time, your mind is going to stumble for a moment by the shock of the situation. Assuming you've trained your mind for this, you go for your ankle holster. Unstrapping it takes a tenth of a second or so, then you pull it. By this time the crackhead is almost on top of you, and you have to get a good aim going.

Tell me-where in this type of situation are you going to find time for warning shots, verbal deterrence, or what have you?

Of course, that's about as ideal as a situation gets. More than likely they'll just walk up to you, stab you, and take your gun and your wallet, leaving you to bleed to death in the street. Odds are in the average robbery/murder situation, you'd never have time to excercise strategy, and probably would never even get the thought process going to operate a gun.

That's why I say-if the window of oppurtunity is there, you take your shots. You don't stop until the crackhead is on the ground dead.



I hear your point on the dangers of a stray shot, thats why the only time i would see it used is if you can put it into grass, somewhere you know it won't fly away.

And i don't think many use ankle holsters. If you wear that button up over shirts you can get a shoulder holster.Depending on how small the gun is you could also get a back pocket holster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nuclear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 5:58pm
While on the topic of holes, you said you have hydroshocks, common defense, super mushroom.Have you ever heard of Extreme Shock ? 1 well placed round from a 9MM can drop a buffalo.It's pricey, but how often will you be using that thing on someone ?

It mushrooms likes crazy, yet disintegrates when it hits walls and other hard stuff I don't think it could go through a person, but it would do serious damage

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BradNowell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Nuclear Nuclear wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

True, there's really no reason to shoot someone 16 times, but I never said there was. I said my pistol holds 16 rounds, all of which would be available for some nutcase to go on a shooting spree with if he took my gun from me while I hesitated.

I would hope that a double tap to the chest would do the trick, but if not, you have to remember that whole idea of using your CCW is to save your life, not to create an ideal encounter.

I'm enjoying this, I think we're getting to the core here-I'd dare say most people that carry a weapon (especially if you're sheltered and inexperienced with death) couldn't fathom looking down at a body with bloody holes twitching and gasping for breath from the bullets you just put into them.

That's life. You do that to keep the same fate from happening to you. You don't carry the gun to be an officer enforcing the law-that's why we have police. You mind your own buisness until your own or someone near you becomes endangered, and then you either face bloody reality or run and get an officer. There's no middle ground.



The thing i really dis-agree on there is the hesitation, assuming you know how to shoot, your around going to be holding onto your gun with two hands, most people now that sideways ghetto crap is reserved for TV only.If you have a good hold on it and are able to send a warning shot, i think you would have enough control to shoot the person.


 have you read any of stratoaxe's posts. THERE IS NO WARNING SHOT!!!! You shoot to kill only when necessary.  Guns are made to kill people not negotiate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2007 at 5:57pm

But why a warning shot? A warning shot in real life translates into a stray bullet ricochet that could kill an innocent person.

You have to take into consideration adrenaline again-most people, probably including myself, would be so overtaken by fear in a life threatening situation, they'd fumble trying to get to their weapon. A CCW isn't on your side like an officer's pistol-it's in a place that's concealable.

So let's say it's around your ankle. You look up, and somewhere around ten feet from you is a crazed crackhead with a switchblade. Bear in mind he's going to be covering ground quickly. There's no instant reaction time, your mind is going to stumble for a moment by the shock of the situation. Assuming you've trained your mind for this, you go for your ankle holster. Unstrapping it takes a tenth of a second or so, then you pull it. By this time the crackhead is almost on top of you, and you have to get a good aim going.

Tell me-where in this type of situation are you going to find time for warning shots, verbal deterrence, or what have you?

Of course, that's about as ideal as a situation gets. More than likely they'll just walk up to you, stab you, and take your gun and your wallet, leaving you to bleed to death in the street. Odds are in the average robbery/murder situation, you'd never have time to excercise strategy, and probably would never even get the thought process going to operate a gun.

That's why I say-if the window of oppurtunity is there, you take your shots. You don't stop until the crackhead is on the ground dead.

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