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Texas being dumb, second act.

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Man Bites Dog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man Bites Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2007 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by CarbineKid CarbineKid wrote:

Originally posted by Susan Storm Susan Storm wrote:

Originally posted by CarbineKid CarbineKid wrote:

My personal feeling aside....So what exactly does the ACLU do for the 2nd Amendment?       


The NRA and ACLU have gotten together on several occasions. They wrote a joint rant to Clinton complaining about a bunch of things back in 94, for instance, ranging from Ruby Ridge and Waco to self-defense laws in general.


More recently, the ACLU joined the NRA to resist recent law changes in Texas that would make it more difficult for gun owners to travel with their weapons.


There are others. A quick search for ACLU and NRA should give you several hits.


Truth is that most of what the NRA does is consistent with the ACLU's policies. It's just that the ACLU doesn't have to focus on the 2d amendment so much, because the 2d amendment has its own special group. The ACLU would rather focus on 1st/4th/5th amendment issues than say "me too" whenever the NRA does something.


From the ACLU
"We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic ..."
Sorry Clark the ACLU is not pro-gun rights. I don't see them doing a think about the DC handgun ban, or any other of our beloved goverments attempts to disarm us. They did not raise a stink over the AWB of 94 or San Fransiscos handgun ban. The ACLU picks the parts of the Bill of rights it feels suits their leftist ways. They are all for the 1st amendment, but they do forget about the 2nd.


They say themselves on that website that they are neutral when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

They do not "forget" about the 2nd, they just realize other groups are more fitted to reach that niche. That is how interest groups work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2007 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Man Bites Dog Man Bites Dog wrote:


They say themselves on that website that they are neutral when it comes to the 2nd amendment. They do not "forget" about the 2nd, they just realize other groups are more fitted to reach that niche. That is how interest groups work. [/QUOTE]
How can an orgization that claims to be all about civil rights be neutral on a civil right guaranteed by our Bill of Rights?? Im sorry but thats a cop out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2007 at 10:40pm
No, my actual beleif in the failings of the current education system was my stint at SCC. In a college inviornment many could not read, write or use language without difficulty, and I having never had Algebra in High School, and 40 plus years later understood and scored higher than the individuals in my refresher class who had Algebra less than one year ago in High School.

Yes I do belief religion was a community binding and social activity with a mainly positive family involvment, where today there is no "time" or interest in the use of this activity as a true "family" get together that one time a week.

Yes time have changed, we no longer and quite frankly never lived a "Leave it to Beaver" family exsistance, but it was surely less complicated and competitive, and less violent an exsistance when I was in High School in NYC in the 60's. (Till the Civil Rights Movement Leaders told us we had to Seperate and become White Americans, Afro-Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 8:25am

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

No, my actual beleif in the failings of the current education system was my stint at SCC. In a college inviornment many could not read, write or use language without difficulty, and I having never had Algebra in High School, and 40 plus years later understood and scored higher than the individuals in my refresher class who had Algebra less than one year ago in High School.

And what did you conclude from your stint at SCC?

Quote Yes I do belief religion was a community binding and social activity with a mainly positive family involvment, where today there is no "time" or interest in the use of this activity as a true "family" get together that one time a week.

Are you saying that the primary benefit of religion is/was to get the family sitting together once a week?

Quote Yes time have changed, we no longer and quite frankly never lived a "Leave it to Beaver" family exsistance, but it was surely less complicated and competitive, and less violent an exsistance when I was in High School in NYC in the 60's. (Till the Civil Rights Movement Leaders told us we had to Seperate and become White Americans, Afro-Americans, Hispanic Americans, etc).

It's all MLK's fault.  Got it.  Things were fine until he came along and stirred things up.  Check.

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlimFlam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 10:08am

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

I can easily look up all the offenders living within a mile from my house, but I have no idea how many drug pushers, buglars, or murderers are living close by.

QFT.  I think the registration is decidedly wrong, unless you plan to do it for ALL criminal offenses, but I'd be against that as well.  You did the time, you get a chance to redeem yourself.  No need to be harrassed by being on a "list" somewhere. 

Back on topic, I think I'm more frightened that the state of Texas has it's own pledge than I am that it has the word "God" in it...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 3:02pm
My concern at SCC was these students who graduated from our "great" public school system and had Algebra 1, 2 or 3 and still did not understand or could perform the tasks at a college level made me question the "quality" of the education and the "value" of that high school diploma.

One of the reasons for religion was family/community unity, why else would organized religion exsist. Now if we replace organized religion with organized state dependancy are we not replacing one evil with another. I do believe the Communists saw the "worship" of the state and leader as a replacement for the "worship" of any religion and thier diety. So if we worship the state and the "value" of the benifits recieved, we are just replacing the church with the state.

No, the Civil Rights Movement was a requirement of the time, but at least in NYC we saw no real overt division in the races, I even dated a Black Girl in 1968. But once the more radical adventurers in thier movement saw advantage in seperation the true sanctioned racial predudice and seperation began now on both sides.

Edited by oldsoldier - 06 August 2007 at 3:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 3:59pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

My concern at SCC was these students who graduated from our "great" public school system and had Algebra 1, 2 or 3 and still did not understand or could perform the tasks at a college level made me question the "quality" of the education and the "value" of that high school diploma.

But maybe the problem is too much god, not too little?

Most of the countries in the world with the highest rates of literacy at the primary education level, for instance, share a couple of things:  Strong public schools with limited private education, and very secular public schools.

Quote One of the reasons for religion was family/community unity, why else would organized religion exsist. Now if we replace organized religion with organized state dependancy are we not replacing one evil with another.

I guess I didn't realize that those were the only options.  Couldn't we replace religion with, say, Dungeons & Dragons, or Scrabble night, or Give Food to the Homeless day, or just yardwork?

Just because we give up god in school doesn't mean we automatically become communists.

Quote ... in NYC we saw no real overt division in the races...

I was going to respond to this, but frankly nothing I could say would do it justice.  So I will just let your statement bask in its own light.

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 4:25pm
I could freely travel by foot through Bedford Sty, Harlem, and even Central Park and not fear a "racially" motivated violent confrontation till about late 67 early 68. then life became more interesting. We played football, baseball, street stickball and other activities without actually noticing skin color, till we were instructed to. Without actually living or expieriencing the times, I guess we can allways relie on the required retoric needed by the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's who would be out of work if they did not keep the seperation alive and well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 4:37pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

I could freely travel by foot through Bedford Sty, Harlem, and even Central Park and not fear a "racially" motivated violent confrontation till about late 67 early 68. then life became more interesting. We played football, baseball, street stickball and other activities without actually noticing skin color, till we were instructed to.

Again, all I can do is preserve your observations for posterity.

BRILLIANT!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2007 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

My concern at SCC was these students who graduated from our "great" public school system and had Algebra 1, 2 or 3 and still did not understand or could perform the tasks at a college level made me question the "quality" of the education and the "value" of that high school diploma.

As good as a school education system may be, you have to realize that there are people that don't care for it. Many people just BS their way through classes and get by without learning crap. Keep in mind that many kids glorify laziness and stupidity.

No offense to people that go to community colleges, but it's no surprise that these same types of people end up there. You're surrounded by people who knew that they didn't have to work hard to get into a community college.

One of the reasons for religion was family/community unity, why else would organized religion exist.

The original reason for superstition was ancient people noticing coincidences and believing that there was some supernatural force behind it. That's why the many pagan beliefs before modern religions many thousands of years ago worshiped nature. A good example of how one group of nomads could have thought this way was on a documentary I saw.

A girl within the group passed out in their travels. The group began to mourn. By coincidence, a gazelle type animal passes by and dies from wounds it got earlier. At the same moment, the girl woke up. The group thought that the gazelle died and gave its life to the girl. The group leader skins the gazelle, thinking its hide will offer protection. Later on, the girl's mother dies, and they try to revive her with the hide.

Because the people were primitive and knew nothing of the workings of the world around them, they took the coincidence to be intervention from a greater power.

It's this human gullibility that continues today. The difference is, now we have buildings to go to, where children can be told about such coincidences before ever experiencing them. Being as innocent as they are, they accept this as truth. The family bonding that comes from religion is really the ritual of indoctrinating kids and enforcing the indoctrinated beliefs of the adults every week. They are all lead to believe that they came to these beliefs themselves, so they don't realize what's happening to them. You know, just like how kids figured out about Santa Claus without anybody telling them about him...

It also persists because there are people that are benefiting from the expansion of religion and the gullibility of its believers. Who wouldn't cash in on billions of people who want to give money and time and services in the name of religion? It can also motivate an entire society to want change. The people that benefit are the ones at the top, who can control society through religion; the Kings and the Presidents and the Ministers and high Clergy and whatnot. So it's best for them to keep it around whether they believe in it or not.

Now if we replace organized religion with organized state dependancy are we not replacing one evil with another. I do believe the Communists saw the "worship" of the state and leader as a replacement for the "worship" of any religion and thier diety. So if we worship the state and the "value" of the benifits recieved, we are just replacing the church with the state.

The objective of secularist movements is to avoid all forced worship of anything. Let people worship whatever the hell they please, as long as it's what they want and not what other people want. You think secularists want people to worship the state and its leader because religion has taught you the same, that you must worship your leader, the provider. You've been taught that secularists and atheists are just like you, except they worship evil things, which is why you and people like you call the simple disbelief in deities a religion, and think we have our own "god" to push on you.

And you may not believe this, but communism did not separate church and state. It combined it. Why? Because the leaders knew that power can easily be gained through religion. It's been done countless times in the past. They turned the government into a religion, because people only question their religions if they HAVEN'T been indoctrinated. It gave the leaders absolute authority.

The fundamentalist Christians (most republicans) want the exact same thing. Turn the government into a theocracy, so that non-believers will become traitors. Make everyone a believer and you will have unquestioned authority. Like I said in an earlier post, the simple act of adding "under God" to anything required by the government is one small step towards establishing a theocracy. Small steps are easy to implement, and the more religious progress is made, the easier these changes will come. Either that or they can do what has been done countless times in the past, including the Communist movement, and just kill anyone who opposes the will of the government.

No, the Civil Rights Movement was a requirement of the time, but at least in NYC we saw no real overt division in the races, I even dated a Black Girl in 1968. But once the more radical adventurers in thier movement saw advantage in seperation the true sanctioned racial predudice and seperation began now on both sides.

Are you comparing segregation to the separation of church and state? I want to comment on this part but I don't want to misunderstand your intentions when considering my argument.
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