The "S" word

Well guys it has been fun debating the "S Word" with you for the past couple of days but i'am content to let this subject die. 

I realize that an individual can not go out onto the field and expect to play one way the entire time if that individual wants his/her team to win, and that includes "snipers".

I started this topic because in the first 10mins of being on this forum it was evident that people really felt strongly about it.  So i just wanted to try to see why and get some in debth reasoning behind it.  Thankyou for all of your opinions on this, it has been fun 

P.S. you will never see the "S word" coming from me on this forum again

Sorry for staying on topic. But my personal opinion and 2 cents. Please don't burn me at the stake for having a differing opinion. I know how much the regulars on this forum hate that

I kinda agree that there can be snipers in paintball (though not in the sense of engagueing targets at distances of 800m). Sniping doesn't always occur at long distances, keep that in mind. Also recon has alot to do with sniping. So if a paintball player strays from the crowd and observes the oponents and helps other players manuver and attack them, then he is performing the duties of a sniper.

Dictionary term of the word sniper:

snip·er       (snî'pər)  Pronunciation Key 
n.  

1. A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

^No mention of engaguing targets at great distances surpassing 500m or even 25m with accuracy at 1MOA.

Though I do understand why alot of you don't think snipers have a place in paintball (speedball). But in the sense that paintball is kinda developed to imitate actualy military combat (woodsball), the word sniper, rifleman, marksman, etc. can be used to describe a specific position played by a paintball player; especially in a woodsball or scenario match.

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry ............

brihard wrote: Funny you should mention that... The vast majority of infantry emplyed in reconaissance roles/units aren't snipers. Just because snipers conduct reconaissance, doesn't mean conducting reconaissance makes you a sniper.

No <poopy>... Never said that being a scout makes you a sniper. I just said snipers often times do a lot of recon work; ever herd the phrase: "snipers are the eyes and ears of the company" (or something like that, not quoted directly). Also I know a guy currently serving in the 10th Mountain Div. who is a cavilry scout, so I know the diffence between a sniper and a scout. Scouts usually take point in the squad during an operation, snipers usually work in two man teams without the luxury of immediate assistance of other friendly forces.

Sorry for rant.

Sorry for staying on topic. But my personal opinion and 2 cents. Please don't burn me at the stake for having a differing opinion.

Where did I put the gasoline? 

I know how much the regulars on this forum hate that

I kinda agree that there can be snipers in paintball (though not in the sense of engagueing targets at distances of 800m). Sniping doesn't always occur at long distances, keep that in mind. Also recon has alot to do with sniping. So if a paintball player strays from the crowd and observes the oponents and helps other players manuver and attack them, then he is performing the duties of a sniper.

Dictionary term of the word sniper:

snip·er       (snî'pər)  Pronunciation Key 
n. 

Now running Logic-Check on definition . . .

1. A skilled (error 1-many paintball snipers are unskilled noobs hiding in the bushes) military shooter (error 2-while paintball players are shooters and may be military, they are not, in the context of the game, military shooters) detailed (error 3-many paintball snipers are not detailed to do anything by anyone other than themselves) to spot and pick off enemy (error 4-while we may have opponents in paintball, we do not have enemies; after all the purpose of the game is to have fun, not engender hatred) soldiers (error 4-while it is possible that the opponent one shoots at may actually be a soldier, this is most commonly not the case) from a concealed place.
2. One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.

^No mention of engaguing targets at great distances surpassing 500m or even 25m with accuracy at 1MOA.

Though I do understand why alot of you don't think snipers have a place in paintball (speedball). But in the sense that paintball is kinda developed to imitate actualy military combat (woodsball), the word sniper, rifleman, marksman, etc. can be used to describe a specific position played by a paintball player; especially in a woodsball or scenario match.

• Consider the SPEC-OPS position of commander:
• If someone is in overall charge of a team, then commander is a good a term as any.  (Squad Leader, Boss, Captain, HMFIC, all work quite well also.)
  
• If that individual is in charge of determining overall strategy for an organized team, I have no problem with the term "Commander" being applied to that.
• If it is a group of walk-ons and some 14 year old who has spent the last year lying about his stats on his brigade page declares himself in charge, he's probably not going to be well received.
• Consider the SPEC-OPS position of "Hammer."  The name bugs me; heavy gunner, which is how the position is described, works just as well.
• A heavy gunner equipped with a twin-A5 set up is truly a heavy gunner.  He possesses, due to his selected equipment (and available finances) the capability to deliver a longer, heavier volume of sustained fire than most other players on the field.
• It is that capability that justifies the heavy gunner, or "Hammer" title.
• Now let's consider the Sniper as described by SPEC-OPS:
• The sniper shoots from concealment (as noted in the definition above as well). 
  
• This does not set him apart from other players or give him a capability they do not have.
• Every woodsball player with minimal experience and half a brain utilizes as much cover and concealment as possible when they play.
• Snipers are used as scouts.
• Again, what prevents other players from being used as scouts?  The answer would be nothing.
• One might suggest that the ghillie would provide an advantage while scouting out the opponents positions, but this would be a fallicy.
• The ghillie would be an advantage as long as it is properly utilized.  This limits the user to minimal/slow/no movement.
• This limiting of movement is not necessarily a problem in the real world where a scout might observe an opponents forces/position for days at a time, but in the fluid and time compressed environment of most paintball games/scenarios, it becomes one.
• The sad fact is the advantages of the ghillie are usually negated by the need to move and the disadvantages (such as snagging/noise) are magnified by this.  In paintball, it is easier to scout the opposition wearing basic camo than it is while wearing a ghillie.
• For those who argue that they know where to wait, I would ask how many of them think real snipers face opponents that are limited by boundary ropes and specified field entry points.
• I can hear it now, "But SPEC-OPS identifies specific types of snipers that apply to paintball!  They have the Ghost Flanker, Ambush Sniper and Longbow Sniper."
• This is true, but if they have to identify special positions that change the basic concept of sniping, shouldn't that be a small sign that maybe there is something questionable about the original supposition?
• Lets consider each sniping position:
• The Ghost Flanker, according to their information page, should sneak unseen to the flanks of the enemy to get better shooting angles.
  
• Any player who has played long enough to receive a few shots from "nowhere" understands this concept.  If reading this tactic on a web page provided them with the equivalent of a religious experience, they need to get significantly more playing time under their belt.
• SPEC-OPS makes it sound like no one else would crawl to get into position.  Snake players do it all the time in speedball and almost anyone in woodsball who is taking fire will try to get low and scoot away. 
  
• Additionally, any flanking element will try to maintain the element of surprise by avoiding observation so this does not really make the Ghost Flanker all that different from most other players.
• The "Ambush Sniper" is explained as the guy that waits in ambush where the opposition is going to come through or the person who guards the flank of the assault force on the "weak side of the field."
• A main tenant of the instructions provided for "Ambush Snipers" is to get a boundary to their side or back to increase the security of their position.  I wonder how many real snipers have the luxury of such artificial protection?
• Waiting where the other team might come is called camping.  It only helps one's team if the other team is obliging enough to go where they are expected.
• On larger fields, what usually happens is that the sniper gets left out of the action and his team is short a body from the start.
• While this may work on smaller fields, it doesn't really take skill to stake out an area when you know that the other team has to come through it.  This is called an ambush and is actually more effective with multiple individuals with high rate of fire markers.
• Guarding the flank of an assault force is not sniping, it is called flank security and is a basic tenant of offensive operations.  It is also not normally performed by snipers.
• The description for the "Longbow Sniper" (LBS) just cracks me up.  It admits that it is "harder to hide" in this position and that "concealment isn't as great a priority."  It goes on to explain that the LBS uses more paint and engages at a greater range from high ground.
• This is called fire support, and is a job that could be better performed by a "Hammer" or someone with a Flatline/Apex barrel and a buttload of paint.  After all, when you're practicing accuracy by volume, more ammo is better.  Which makes it funny that this position is identified with a marker that has a max ammo capacity of 20 rounds.
• There just isn't anything that really sets the sniper position apart from your basic paintballers, except that if someone made it a point to play in a manner that was point-by-point compliant with a lot of the sniper drivel that is passed off as information, they would be less useful to their team.
• The closest that I have ever seen anyone get to sniping in paintball is when someone with an Apex or Flatline takes advantage of the ballistic characteristics of their barrel to fire on opponents that are unable to successfully return fire because overhanging/intervening flora interferes with the arced fire from their normal barrels.
• But, this isn't sniping either; it's just taking advantage of the ballistic characteristics of one's armament.
• If two individuals fire at each other from within cinderblock buildings, the one with the 9mm is hosed, while the one with the .50 cal probably isn't.  The better armed individual is not a sniper, he's just better armed.
• I look forward to the day when paintball technology evolves to the point where there are working paintball sniper rifles that are effective within the existing safety parameters of the sport.  Unfortunately, that day isn't here yet.
• There's some good shots, and some darn sneaky players out there, but there are no snipers.
  

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry ............

You should be. 

You write entirely too much...

But I must say, I'm impressed.