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Dune View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


I don't think racism is a problem in civilized society at all, you just have your extremists (ex. Al Sharpton) who turn everything into a race issue and blow it all out of proportion.

I think that couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact many civilized nations today face racism problems. For example France recently had riots based on race and poverty. The United States in the midst of economic boom was an incredibly racist nation, and still is today.



Edited by Dune - 12 June 2007 at 4:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

If Im walking down the street, and I see some thugged-up black guy walking towords me with his hand in his sweatshirt pocket, talking really loud and obnoxious to his friends, am I a racist if I consider my own safety?

Yes, if you're associating his being black with his being a gangster lowlife....His race isn't the issue there, it's his demeanor and style, and the fact that he looks like a criminal...

Am I a racist if I blame the government subsidized apartments right next to my addition for the high crime in the neighborhood?

Yes, if you assume that all the people in those apartments are of a certain race and that they are responsible for the crime....That might be full of redneck idiots who are breaking the law....

Am I a racist for questioning why black athletes and celebrities never go back to the bad neighborhoods they grew up in, and donate some of their money to bettering other minority kids growing up there?

I don't know, did you question why Anna Nicole Smith never went back to the trailer park?

Theres a point where stereotyping a race based on the overwhelming behavior of those that are publically visible is a valid thing.

Are you sure?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

If Im walking down the street, and I see some thugged-up black guy walking towords me with his hand in his sweatshirt pocket, talking really loud and obnoxious to his friends, am I a racist if I consider my own safety?


To an extent yes because your making a general assumption. I'd be more worry about the one being quiet and eyeing all arround for witnesses or security cameras. But as you stated all stereotypes do have like Urban legends a degree of truth to them.

The worst thing about racism is what it has become. A Crutch for Minoroties and the Source of Guilt for many White Americans. And I forsee it will remain that for as long as we keep trying to Self Segregrate ourselves. Wich such crap as "African American" "Hispanic American" "Caucasian American", when will we realize that to the whole World your just an American.

That to me was the best leason I learned Overseas while in the Marines. Want to see an Angry African? Have an African American call himself that. Want to get laughed at in Spain, try to tell them what a Hispanic American is. When we get over the past and start looking towards the Future as Americans maybee we then can focus our attention into more pressing issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reclusivetorrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 5:48pm
We are all raised towards a certain mindset.

I don' think that black people (let's narrow down the topic for now)
are the way they are (stereotypically speaking) because they are
actually different from anyone else, but because of what society tells
them they are.

If I told you (as an example) that you were worthless, stupid, and
lazy from the time you were born to now you would probably think
that you were those things. Or subconciously you would have a
severe self asteem problem.

To bring this to real life, most blacks are not wealthy, they are told
by or society and our completely worthless political structure that
they cannot achieve success, and that they need to rely on others
(namely the government) for their sustenence(sp?).
They are also told that they are different from white people by their
peers, just as alot of white kids are raied to believe that blacks are
diferent from us.

They are also told (in some instances) that they are poor because the
white man is holding them down...

These are all examples of learned behavior.

Because they THINK that they are different they act, dress, and speak
differently, but in actuality they are no different from anyone else.

Take Asians for example, people tend to say that they are the
smartest people on earth. I don't agree, I don't think that they ar
any more intelligent then anyone else. However, most are from a
civilization that is so overpopulated that no one cares whether or not
they live or die, thus they are forced into working extremely hard to
achieve some form of importance. This work ethic is what we see,
not extreme intelligence (generally speaking of course, I know there
are extremely intelligent Asians).


The basic point is that we tell ourselves and each other that we are
different, but the truth is we are different merely because we TELL
ourselves we are.

Hope I didn't give anyone a headache

Later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by reclusivetorrid reclusivetorrid wrote:


If I told you (as an example) that you were worthless, stupid, and
lazy from the time you were born to now you would probably think
that you were those things. Or subconciously you would have a
severe self asteem problem.


I have never in my life been told that because of what I was born I wasn't going to be anything more than what the steroetype says. I havent even been called a racial slur in Hate in my life. And as a Marine I was stationed in the Dixie Loving Carolinas. Nor when I went to West Virginia durring a long weekend with a Buddy.

That stuff went down in the 60's and 70's but as a "society" that isnt the message that's being spread. That's all that residual guilt that people who use Race Cards throw up. Does it happend still in an invididual basis or even group basis. I am sure it does more often than I could Imagine. But untill I see a "Welcome to X-Town (no Blacks, Mexicans nor Gays allowed)" sign. I dont think that as a society we are at that level.

   We really need to stop making escuses and work on the problem. No one in America is forced to do anything. This is indeed the land of oportunity. Who ever is willing to face the challenge and get ahead either by brawn and sweat or wits and brains. Either way its all about the money. That's the only color that really matters in America, green.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:



The worst thing about racism is what it has become. A Crutch for Minoroties and the Source of Guilt for many White Americans. And I forsee it will remain that for as long as we keep trying to Self Segregrate ourselves. Wich such crap as "African American" "Hispanic American" "Caucasian American", when will we realize that to the whole World your just an American.

That to me was the best leason I learned Overseas while in the Marines. Want to see an Angry African? Have an African American call himself that. Want to get laughed at in Spain, try to tell them what a Hispanic American is. When we get over the past and start looking towards the Future as Americans maybee we then can focus our attention into more pressing issues.


I absolutely agree! I'm glad too see that there is somone out there that thinks the same as I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:38am

Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:



The worst thing about racism is what it has become. A Crutch for Minoroties and the Source of Guilt for many White Americans.

THAT is the worst thing about racism?  I'm going to have to disagree on that one.  And I think James Byrd would too.

Sure, it sucks that racism makes white people feel bad.  Cry me a river.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:



The worst thing about racism is what it has become. A Crutch for Minoroties and the Source of Guilt for many White Americans.

THAT is the worst thing about racism?  I'm going to have to disagree on that one.  And I think James Byrd would too.

Sure, it sucks that racism makes white people feel bad.  Cry me a river.



Well white people feeling bad is all that he said, " A crutch for minorities..." was the other thing. I agree that that is probably the more common bad aspect of racisim, but yes; deaths as a result of racisim are the worst thing about racisim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:56am
Was Jesus a racist?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Was Jesus a racist?


No, why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:09pm

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


Well white people feeling bad is all that he said, " A crutch for minorities..." was the other thing. I agree that that is probably the more common bad aspect of racisim

Have to disagree there too.

Think about that for a second.  The only way that crutchiness is the most common badness about racism is if racism doesn't really exist, and then you have a paradox.

This position simply cannot, as a mathematical matter, be correct.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:11pm

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Was Jesus a racist?

Yes, until the civil rights movement.  Then He saw the light and became anti-racist.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


Well white people feeling bad is all that he said, " A crutch for minorities..." was the other thing. I agree that that is probably the more common bad aspect of racisim

Have to disagree there too.

Think about that for a second.  The only way that crutchiness is the most common badness about racism is if racism doesn't really exist, and then you have a paradox.

This position simply cannot, as a mathematical matter, be correct.



Well yes...kind of. The people who use racism as a crutch usually hate the race that they say is oppressing them, so they are in turn racists themselves, so even if racism as a crutch was the only form of racisim left (and its not) then racism whould still exist. But this is a piontless arguement anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Was Jesus a racist?

Yes, until the civil rights movement.  Then He saw the light and became anti-racist.



Sorry for the double post.

It was people, before the civil rights movement, that made Jesus look like a racist, but they were dead wrong. If you read the new testement, I beleive it was in 2 corinthians, the Bible states that in Gods eyes, there is no difference between the races. Infact since Abraham, in God's eyes there has really only been two races anyway, Jews and Gentiles, and now with the new covenant there is no longer any difference between jews and gentiles, so no God is not racist and never was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Was Jesus a racist?


Yes, until the civil rights movement. Then He saw the light and became anti-racist.

Ah, Thank You. Someone got what I was saying.

I think Homophobia and sexism are also in the same boat as racism. They all still exists but people try to pretend it is acceptable or doesn't exist.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:29pm

As for the "thugged up" comment, that doesn't really come into play. When you say black, or white, or hispanic or whatever, I'm thinking of a "normal" citizen, whatever that may be in your book. I know "black people," who are normally nice, courteous, etc. Then I know "gangstas," who are aggressive, deliberately rude, attention-starved egomaniacs who embrace a violent culture glorifying the gangster life. It just so happens that "gangstas" happen to be black for the most part, and where I live, happen to be the majority of blacks. As someone I know so keenly pointed out, "They fought to fit in, now they're fighting to be different."

Side note: I've seen the same with hispanics, white people (though I can't help but laugh at white "gangstas") and other races, so I understnad it's not all inclusive.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:


Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Was Jesus a racist?


Yes, until the civil rights movement. Then He saw the light and became anti-racist.

Sorry for the double post.It was people, before the civil rights movement, that made Jesus look like a racist, but they were dead wrong. If you read the new testement, I beleive it was in 2 corinthians, the Bible states that in Gods eyes, there is no difference between the races. Infact since Abraham, in God's eyes there has really only been two races anyway, Jews and Gentiles, and now with the new covenant there is no longer any difference between jews and gentiles, so no God is not racist and never was.


If there was no difference between races in the eyes of God, then there would be no need for "him" to illustrate that there were 2 different races. He would view everyone only as people.

Also Jesus tell his followers in Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Did Jesus think his gospel and teachings were above the heathens grasp?

Also at the time of Jesus' visit to earth, The Pharisaic rabbis viewed people of other races as dogs. In Mark 7:27 a foreign woman in the neighboring country of Tyre and Sidon asks Jesus to heal her demon possessed daughter, he said, "It is not fair to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs" Was he contrasting the Jewish children of God and the foreign dogs of Phoenicia?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 12:53pm
I think a good deal of people are guilty of falling into relying on overgeneralized stereotypes more than they are guilty of having true racist beliefs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reclusivetorrid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 1:11pm
Hade's just brought up what I was going to bring up. Jesus was a
Jew, and the Jews are God's chosen people.

When Jesus said that in Matthew He was reffering to anyone who
wasn't jewish. However, this idea that only Jews can be saved was
repealed in the Book of Acts when God showed the vision of the
unclean animals to St Peter.

But this isn't a debate about religion (don't get me started). And this
is not a debate about gays or women. Please don't start that mess.
We pretty much know that you'll never get everyone to accept
homosexual behavior. That's just a fact that you uber libs are gonna
have to deal with. I personally don't have a problem with
homosexual people as long as they aren't tryin' to do the "mexican
hat dance" in front of me. I don't really wanna see that.

And (big surprise) women are different from men, not that they can't
do what men do, and not that they are in any way inferior, but they
are different. If you don't believe that then your just stupid.

But back to the racism discussion, I agree with what evil elvis said,
mostly. However, he was dissagreeing with an example of learned
behavior, not an actual instance. Plus the influence does not apply
in every individual case, I was speeking in generic terms.

Please don't try to suck my into a "gay" or religious debate.

I'd like to aviod those subjects



Later
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 June 2007 at 1:34pm

Originally posted by reclusivetorrid reclusivetorrid wrote:

And this
is not a debate about gays or women. Please don't start that mess.
We pretty much know that you'll never get everyone to accept
homosexual behavior. That's just a fact that you uber libs are gonna
have to deal with. I personally don't have a problem with
homosexual people as long as they aren't tryin' to do the "mexican
hat dance" in front of me. I don't really wanna see that.

...

Please don't try to suck my into a "gay" or religious debate.

I'd like to aviod those subjects


Methinks perhaps he doth protest too much?

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