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HPA vs. CO2 fps ?

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    Posted: 08 June 2007 at 6:50pm

grrr had a pop up and killed my original post ...

I was checking my 98 Custom and the A5 with my F1 Coney today ...

I found the 98 about 10 fsp slower on HPA and the A5 really took a hit, it was closer to 15-20 slower.

Ideas or thoughts, is this a normal finding ?

the CO2 was from 2 tanks, one closer to empty, the other nearly full, very close results, with in 5 or less of each other

the HPA was at 2200-1800 or so during the testing, it is a 3000 tank

A5 on HPA
12" Lapco Bigshot & AutoSpirit (SS)
12" J&J ceramic
Freak Jr kit 14"
98 Custom on CO2
Tippmann x-kit
2x trigger
12" J&J ceramic
F1 Chrony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2007 at 7:16pm
CO2 was pushing 800psi into the gun, and HPA must have been pushing somewhere less than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2007 at 9:09pm
co2 was going higher than 800-850 while the HPA tank was either doing 800 psi or 850psi. Because of the different input pressures, the velocity will change because you don't have something regulating the pressure to a certain spot all the time. If you had a regulator, you would have seen no difference in velocity.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote new 2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 8:17am

ok, so I should probably install a regulator on the markers?  I am not opposed to some upgrading, sounds like it might make for more consistant shooting.

I would love to be able to crono the 2 as close to the same as possible and not have to worry about what air system I am using.

gauge on the reg or no? thoughts

A5 on HPA
12" Lapco Bigshot & AutoSpirit (SS)
12" J&J ceramic
Freak Jr kit 14"
98 Custom on CO2
Tippmann x-kit
2x trigger
12" J&J ceramic
F1 Chrony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:16am
I like the guage on the reg so you can tell what psi you are at. The velocity will fluctuate as the day goes on though. My HPA always chronoes in at about 280 at the beginning of the day but once the gun warms up, it starts to shoot 290 (Ion). You will hit the same problem when switching back and forth with co2 as you will notice that co2 fluctuates even more than HPA. If you have a chrono near you, might as well save on the reg and just do more playing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote new 2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:21am

hmmm ... ok I am going to need some help on this

ideas for regulators, keeping in mind I am running HP not LP

lots of price range on these things too, can I get away with a mid-range price and still have a decent reg?

A5 on HPA
12" Lapco Bigshot & AutoSpirit (SS)
12" J&J ceramic
Freak Jr kit 14"
98 Custom on CO2
Tippmann x-kit
2x trigger
12" J&J ceramic
F1 Chrony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote new 2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 9:28am

good thoughts there Robo, I will back off jumping into a reg just yet, however I would like some insite from the forum on regulators.  I will do a better search and read the current info here aswell.

Robo, your Ion is a LP (low pressure) marker?

It will be my next (first) upgrade project, installing regs on both the A5 and 98.

A5 on HPA
12" Lapco Bigshot & AutoSpirit (SS)
12" J&J ceramic
Freak Jr kit 14"
98 Custom on CO2
Tippmann x-kit
2x trigger
12" J&J ceramic
F1 Chrony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 10:12am

Ions are low pressure markers.

The best regs for dealing with co2 are palmer stabalizers because they won't freeze or break easy at all. When I had my C Pro E with female stab, I could make the stab covered in frost and it still worked perfect.

But if you want something with better looks and you use more HPA than co2, a Custom Products reg would do well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by new 2006 new 2006 wrote:

From another thread, I am looking at putting regulators on them.  I saw a noticable difference in fps from CO2 to HPA.  I was thinking I would see what I can find with gauges, not sure if gauges are usefull or not though.




Just so you know, there is no difference in fps when comparing HPA to CO2.

HPA is stored in the tank as a pressurized gas.  It tends to be much more consistent, more efficient, and cheaper in the long run.(after the initial investment.)

CO2 is stored in the tanks as a liquid.  It is much for subject to change it's pressure and such depending on the weather.  During high rates of fire, without an expansion chamber, CO2 does not have enough time to return to it's gaseous form as it enters the gun. This can cause inconsistency and innacuracy. Though, for many, CO2 is the only option, as they don't want to drive to get HPA tanks filled.



The gas being used does not effect the fps, the pressure at which it is input does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote new 2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2007 at 11:56pm

nice pull usaf, I was trying not to get a 'dual' thread going, glad to see it over here :)

I understand there is a different input from the 2, I was wondering about the CO2 when I bought them, there was no reg like on my hpa tank

I will probably swap back and forth between the 2, it will depend on what I have full.  I was worried about the drift in fps.  Sounds like a reg or 2 are in my future lol

I am just wondering about regs, I have not had time to do a decent search on the forum, so I wanted to see about regulators and I like to see operating pressures, so I will use a gauge.

I am new to pb and $100 x2 is a pretty big improvement, the wife will not like heh ... so just getting the ground work in / research

The input thus far is great  ... trying not to ramble, it is late and I am getting a bit sleepy

A5 on HPA
12" Lapco Bigshot & AutoSpirit (SS)
12" J&J ceramic
Freak Jr kit 14"
98 Custom on CO2
Tippmann x-kit
2x trigger
12" J&J ceramic
F1 Chrony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote e-rok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2007 at 3:30pm
id think the best benefit of using nitrogen compared to co2 is the condensation. you know when you slingin paint with co2 your **edited** starts to freeze up n your barrel gets all wet n you start wingin balls in all directions. with your nitrogen you keep your dry barrel dry and more accurate
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