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Nitro Question

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MT. Vigilante View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 May 2007 at 10:43am
Now this might be a dumb newb question but in all the years I've played I have never used Nitrogen, but now I have a gun that needs nitro so here is my question;

Does nitrogen last as long as Co2?

Now it seems to me that it should last longer because unlike Co2, nitrogen remains a gas when under the same amount of pressure.

But the reason I ask this is because my freind's nitro tank on his Ion only lasts about one game, (I don't remember what size it is but it isn't very small) I hope its just his tank, because I don't want to have to re-fill my tank after every game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 11:09am
A 20 oz. c02 tank should yield more shots than a 68/4500.  There's a chart somewhere but I can't find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daniero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 11:33am
3000psi tanks yield about 10 shots per 1ci.
4500psi tanks yield about 15 shots per 1 ci.

so...

48ci 3000psi yields about 480 shots
72ci 3000psi yields about 720 shots
45ci 4500psi yields about 675 shots
68ci 4500psi yields about 1020 shots

All this changes from marker to marker, but it gives you a good idea.

CO2 gives around 60 shots per 1oz

so 20oz should give you about 1200 shots, but again, it depends on the marker.

These are not exact numbers, just a rough idea of what I remember from what I've read in the forums, so if there's something wrong, just tell me and I'll fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 11:55am
So in order to use my Ion all day I will have to either buy several nitro tanks, get an Anti siphon tube for my 20oz Co2, or get a 4500 psi Nitro and look like I'm carrying a fire extinguisher on my back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 1:14pm
I think daniero's numbers are right, though I'm pretty sure a 20oz will get you closer to 1000 shots on average (roughly 50 shots per ounce). CO2 will vary a lot though, nitro is pretty predictable. Personally, I'd rather carry a beefy nitro tank around than mess with a bunch of CO2 tanks just because nitro is such a better air source. The fact that you can get high capacity nitro tanks is also a plus. I like my 68/4500 since it's enough to shoot my hopper and all 3 pods that I carry and I only play at fields anyway. If you don't play at a field and you only get 1 fill per day then I guess you'd have to go bigger, depending on how much you shoot. My friend has an 88/4500 and it's not tremendously bigger. If you can afford multiple nitro tanks, go for it. Otherwise, you have to weigh the pros and cons for yourself. CO2 is cheap but very inconsistent while nitro is expensive (initially) but much more consistent, especially in the winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bruce A. Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 1:49pm

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

So in order to use my Ion all day I will have to either buy several nitro tanks, get an Anti siphon tube for my 20oz Co2, or get a 4500 psi Nitro and look like I'm carrying a fire extinguisher on my back.

No, a 4500 psi tank the same size as a 3000 psi tank will hold more gas.

First off, you have only one CO2 tank? When I was playing speedball with CO2 I kept at least 2 additional full 20 oz tanks in my equipment bag. It took three to four 20 ouncers to play all day.

I would not be playing with an HPA tank if my field did not refill them. All day air, CO2 or HPA, is $10...refills as many times as needed. I filled my own CO2 tanks at home to avoid having to miss a game while going back to the refill station. Now that I play HPA I do have to miss a game now and then, but we refill them ourselves, no waiting for field personnel, so it is quick.

Also, with the price of all day CO2, there was no price advantage to refill my own. I did it for convience...and to have gas to practice and adjust my marker at home. With HPA I refill it at home, for testing and adjustment, from my argon welding cylinders (pressure is pressure). Some people buy SCUBA tanks so they can refill their HPA tanks at home. Not worth the cost to me with a $10 all day air price at the field.

 

PS- Isn't there an Ion forum someplace? We sure do seem to get a lot of Ion questions on the Tippmann Forums.



Edited by Bruce A. Frank - 31 May 2007 at 1:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 1:54pm
^Hey bruce can you link me to some decent Scuba Tanks? I've been wanting to play with HPA but no one around here has it, and If I can find a decent Scuba tanks I just might be able to turn a profit on this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 1:55pm

As Bruce said, I would get my c02 tanks (4 of them) filled locally for more $ so I wouldn't have to get them filled all weekend.

My gun got over a case of paint on 1 c02 20 oz. and approx. 1500 on 68/4500.

Do not run your ION on c02.  Not because c02 "is dirty" but because of the frost issues associated.  I ran c02 w/ coiled remote and a Palmer and again I don't recommend it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 1:55pm

A 68/4500 is almost the same size as a 20oz. Having an Ion will actually let you shoot more out of a 68/4500 than a 20oz co2 because it is more efficient, granted you have the gun set up correctly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Bruce A. Frank Bruce A. Frank wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

So in order to use my Ion all day I will have to either buy several nitro tanks, get an Anti siphon tube for my 20oz Co2, or get a 4500 psi Nitro and look like I'm carrying a fire extinguisher on my back.

No, a 4500 psi tank the same size as a 3000 psi tank will hold more gas.

First off, you have only one CO2 tank? When I was playing speedball with CO2 I kept at least 2 additional full 20 oz tanks in my equipment bag. It took three to four 20 ouncers to play all day.

I would not be playing with an HPA tank if my field did not refill them. All day air, CO2 or HPA, is $10...refills as many times as needed. I filled my own CO2 tanks at home to avoid having to miss a game while going back to the refill station. Now that I play HPA I do have to miss a game now and then, but we refill them ourselves, no waiting for field personnel, so it is quick.

Also, with the price of all day CO2, there was no price advantage to refill my own. I did it for convience...and to have gas to practice and adjust my marker at home. With HPA I refill it at home, for testing and adjustment, from my argon welding cylinders (pressure is pressure). Some people buy SCUBA tanks so they can refill their HPA tanks at home. Not worth the cost to me with a $10 all day air price at the field.

 

PS- Isn't there an Ion forum someplace? We sure do seem to get a lot of Ion questions on the Tippmann Forums.



Well thats the thing. This whouldn't be a problem if I had an official field to play on, but here in Montana there are very few actual paintball fields, and absolutely none near Helena. So I have to pack enough air with me to last all day because the only places where we can play are way outta town. And I can't afford multiple Nitro tanks.


Originally posted by RoboCop RoboCop wrote:

A 68/4500 is almost the same size as a 20oz. Having an Ion will actually let you shoot more out of a 68/4500 than a 20oz co2 because it is more efficient, granted you have the gun set up correctly.



So what do I have to do to set it up correctly?



Edited by MT. Vigilante - 31 May 2007 at 4:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:13pm

Another thing to keep in consideration is who will be filling your HPA tanks?  What is the most they can fill?  Where I live, there is a Diver's shop that fill scuba tanks.  They also fill HPA tanks at $5/tank.  The max they can fill is 3800psi.  We've had 3 paintball stores in town that all closed up and only one of them filled HPA to 3000psi.  So, why would I purchase 4500psi tanks when nobody inside an hour's drive can fill them to capacity?  So, I looked for the biggest 3000psi HPA tanks I could find.  I eventually found two 114cu/3000psi tanks (A Crossfire and a Nitroduck) each for under $100.

I still wasn't very happy about having to spend $10 to fill them everytime I wanted to play.  So I made another investment of $200 and found a used 3500psi SCUBA tank and a fillstation.  That same Diver's shop only charges me $4/fill on the SCUBA tank with a discount bulk purchase of 10 fills.  I can play for several weeks on that SCUBA tank and give all day fills for $4 to anyone that I play with that has HPA.

Sorry, got a little off the beaten path here.  You'll have to take into consideration what kind of tank you'll want to get depending on the available infrastructure (supply).  If you can find someplace that will fill up to 4500psi, then by all means get 4500psi tanks.  If not, 3000spi tanks are less expensive and pretty plentiful.  There are people out there all the time upgrading to 4500psi and letting ther 3000psi tanks go for cheap.  Shop around.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Another thing to keep in consideration is who will be filling your HPA tanks?  What is the most they can fill?  Where I live, there is a Diver's shop that fill scuba tanks.  They also fill HPA tanks at $5/tank.  The max they can fill is 3800psi.  We've had 3 paintball stores in town that all closed up and only one of them filled HPA to 3000psi.  So, why would I purchase 4500psi tanks when nobody inside an hour's drive can fill them to capacity?  So, I looked for the biggest 3000psi HPA tanks I could find.  I eventually found two 114cu/3000psi tanks (A Crossfire and a Nitroduck) each for under $100.

I still wasn't very happy about having to spend $10 to fill them everytime I wanted to play.  So I made another investment of $200 and found a used 3500psi SCUBA tank and a fillstation.  That same Diver's shop only charges me $4/fill on the SCUBA tank with a discount bulk purchase of 10 fills.  I can play for several weeks on that SCUBA tank and give all day fills for $4 to anyone that I play with that has HPA.

Sorry, got a little off the beaten path here.  You'll have to take into consideration what kind of tank you'll want to get depending on the available infrastructure (supply).  If you can find someplace that will fill up to 4500psi, then by all means get 4500psi tanks.  If not, 3000spi tanks are less expensive and pretty plentiful.  There are people out there all the time upgrading to 4500psi and letting ther 3000psi tanks go for cheap.  Shop around.



Yes, that I did do before buying my Ion, I found a place in town that fills up to 4500 psi tanks, does that mean that they can fill all sizes of 4500psi?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:20pm

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:


Yes, that I did do before buying my Ion, I found a place in town that fills up to 4500 psi tanks, does that mean that they can fill all sizes of 4500psi?

Yes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:46pm

It is easy yet hard to explain how to set the dwell on the gun so you can get maximum efficiency. I still need to tweak the dwell because I am sure my dwell can go lower. 

Here is a good website that will help you with many of your Ion needs.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunchicken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:47pm
i would just stick with co2, the tanks for nitrogen cost three times as much for a small one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote +DreX+ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 5:57pm
I run nitro and CO2, The CO2 with a remote during the summer, and the Nitro during the winter, because the temp does not affect it as much. I have a 68/3000 I believe, and my gun has a cyclone without LPK. I usually get around a bag of paint with it, give or take a pod 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MT. Vigilante Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2007 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Gunchicken Gunchicken wrote:

i would just stick with co2, the tanks for nitrogen cost three times as much for a small one.


Thats just ones that are carbon fiber or whatever the heck kinda fancie material. I found a place in town that sells the good ol' fashioned steel kind for around 50 bucks.
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