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NJ: Proposal would prohibit muskets

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    Posted: 10 May 2007 at 11:22pm
I could not get the link to work...but heres the text anyways.       

NJ: Proposal would prohibit battlefield muskets and popular deer muzzleloaders
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jerse...4960.xml&coll=1
Proposal would prohibit battlefield muskets and popular deer muzzleloaders
Thursday, May 10, 2007
BY BRIAN T. MURRAY
Star-Ledger Staff

The Continental Army and the Redcoats may have to go at each other with baseball bats in New Jersey.

Revolutionary War buffs who annually re-enact historic conflicts like the Battle of Monmouth with muskets contend they will be disarmed by a proposed gun ban aimed at modern .50-caliber rifles that gun-control advocates call potential terrorist "sniper" weapons.

A bill in the Assembly (A3998) states that antiques and replica guns will be excluded from the ban, but gun advocates say the measure caps that exclusionary rule at .60-caliber rifles -- which would ban muskets carried by many Civil War re-enactors, as well as the Continental Army. The proposed law also extends the ban to popular, one-shot "in-line" muzzleloaders used by thousands of deer hunters, angering many sporting organizations.

"Just about every rifle carried on the American continent prior to 1855 were larger than .60-caliber," said Peter Hefferan of Wantage, a re-enactor and owner of Reactive Technologies, a private firearms consulting operation that works with law enforcement.

"You'll wipe out re-enactors of the American Revolution. The whole concept of the re-enactment is history, and it is required that everything be accurate right down to the threading of the garments and the number of buttons, even the type of buttons," he said.

The arrest this week of six suspected terrorists accused of trying to kill personnel at Fort Dix has provided some steam for the controversial gun-ban bill.

"We have no intent of damaging or impeding the ability of hunters to hunt or re-enactors to do what they do," said Bryan Miller of Cease Fire New Jersey. "But every time we try to get people from the other side of this debate to help us draft a bill that works, they refuse. If this bill is flawed, it's their own fault."

Still, Assemblyman Reed Gusciora (D-Mercer), a primary sponsor of the .50-caliber ban, said he hopes to clear up the dispute with hunters and re-enactors by introducing amendments today when the measure goes before the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee in Trenton.

"I just went to a tour of the Princeton battlefield today, so I understand the importance of the re-enactors and I plan to make sure the legislation is clearer so they are not affected. The amendments also will take out in-line muzzleloaders," Gusciora said.

The target of the law is supposedly the civilian model of the .50-caliber BMG rifle, including the bolt-action as well as any semi-automatic version of the gun. Such rifles are capable of effectively firing a .50-caliber, fixed-ammunition round about 1,000 yards.

A few trained military snipers have been able to kill enemy targets at much longer distances since the guns were invented in 1917.

Large and cumbersome, they are not widely owned in the United States, have not been used in crimes and, according to firearms experts, cannot shoot down commercial airplanes as some claim. But gun-control activists contend the large-caliber rifle has no legitimate sporting purpose and that, in the era of home-grown terrorists, the time has come to ban the gun.

"Especially in light of the events this week at Fort Dix, we need to remember we're now in a post-9/11 world where we have to be worried about someone misusing this gun," Gusciora said.

The in-line rifles and the guns used by re-enactors are all muzzleloaders -- rifles that use technology dating back hundreds of years. They do not use modern ammunition cartridges.

They are loaded by pouring black powder or powder pellets down the barrel of the rifle and then packing a bullet-type projectile down the barrel on top of the charge.

Some old models are ignited by burning a wick, as with the famous "Three Musketeers." Most replicas and in-line models used today are ignited by pulling a trigger that brings a hammer down to ignite a powder cap or an open pan of black powder, which sends a spark into the chamber of the rifle to ignite the packed powder and projectile in the muzzle.

The hammers are traditionally on the side of the rifle.

But modern "in-line" muzzleloading rifles have the hammer directly at the rear of the gun -- largely to permit hunters to keep their powder dry in damp whether.

About 9,200 deer are shot annually in New Jersey by muzzleloader hunters.

"In-line muzzleloaders are one of the most popular deer guns around. This bill attacks hunting along with the .50-caliber gun they want to ban," said George Howard of the New Jersey Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs. "They almost banned shotguns the last time they tried a bill like this, and I don't know whether it's deliberate or they just don't know what they are doing."

Legislative attempts to ban the .50-caliber BMG rifle have gone on for nearly a decade, but they also have stalled because of murky wording.

"I understand the intent of the law, and I might even agree with that intent," said John Peppas of Long Valley, who is part of the Revolutionary War re-enactment group, the 4th Light Continental Dragoons. "But I don't understand why they can't place the prohibition on the guns they want to prohibit, and not our replicas."

Brian Murray may be reached at bmurray@starledger.com



Edited by CarbineKid - 10 May 2007 at 11:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 11:34pm
i dont see the big deal, its better than a regular rifles...its single shot for gods sake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Commander_Cool Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2007 at 11:43pm

"need to remember we're now in a post-9/11 world where we have to be worried about someone misusing this gun"

 

Ummmm...hate to break it to lawmakers, but the world has not changed since 9/11.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 12:44am
Originally posted by Commander_Cool Commander_Cool wrote:

"need to remember we're now in a post-9/11 world where we have to be worried about someone misusing this gun"

 

Ummmm...hate to break it to lawmakers, but the world has not changed since 9/11.

Of course it has (no sarcasm), you are blind to think it hasen't
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nagash1959 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 1:31am

No, it really hasn't. Stupid people still do stupid things for stupid reasons. That has never and will never change until the day that humanity is wiped clean of this earth.

I'm so freaking tired of this "post 9-11" crap from everyone. Nearly every idiot with a grudge against something has spouted this line and it never has anything to do with what happened that day.

Some 3,000 people didn't deserve to die. Those same 3,000 people don't deserve to have every self serving lunatic in this country talk about them like whatever their "mission" is would have changed that day.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 6:08am
I am sick of this post 9/11 crap too. That is exactly what I thought when I read it.

The only difference in the world today is that it's harder to get on a damn airplane, and we have soldiers overseas fighting for no reason.

You are blind to think it has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 6:39am
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am sick of this post 9/11 crap too. That is exactly what I thought when I read it.The only difference in the world today is that it's harder to get on a damn airplane, and we have soldiers overseas fighting for no reason.You are blind to think it has.

The US has changed since 9/11, the fact that you are even bothered by it is proof of it. However you guys have been getting off topic from the original topic of the thread.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 6:42am
speaking of 9/11, this thread has been hijacked...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 9:00am
I'm just wondering if anyone has any information on how many guns were used by the terrorists on September 11? I'm fairly certain the number is 0. So how is 9/11 relevant to this?
How many New Jersey citizens have been killed by a terrorist (or even anyone for that matter) using a .50 muzzleloader. Even the .50 BMG isn't exactly commonly used in the commission of crimes, as the article states.

The world hasn't changed that much. It's still people killing people for stupid reasons.
I think the dems need to go to a gun education class before they take any further action to ban ANY gun. They don't seem to know jack about these so-called "scary terrorist weapons, ZOMG!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 9:09am

All I know is that if this goes through and continues to NY, Im shafted.

We have about 7 firearms that could qualify under this proposition.

Its utterly ludicrous. I can understand when schools ask us not to bring these weapons with us when we do presentations therein, but to propose an outright ban?? Please.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 10:31am

The people writing these laws dont know crap about firearms. I'm convinced that that is the problem. They ban teflon coated lead bullets which have no armor peircing capabilities, they banned pistol grips and bayonet lugs, they'll ban a .50BMG but not a .408 Che-Tac

They don't know what the hell they're doing. A kid in my state & local government class did a presentation about gun control the other day and couldnt tell me how a glock was so radically different from a 1935 browning high power when he was discussin how guns keep getting dealier.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 10:39am
Anyone who has never owned/operated a gun has absolutely no right to discuss what gun control laws should be IMO. They don't even SOUND like they know what they're talking about. Listen to the bull<crap> they spout off half the time. It's obvious that over half couldn't pick out a rifle in a group of shotguns.

Politicians in general don't seem to know jack about anything other than politics. They know what will get them re-elected, and that's all they care about.
Facts, research, etc. be damned. It's all about what sounds right to an idiotic, uneducated public.

Edited by Bunkered - 11 May 2007 at 10:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 11:22am

Originally posted by Bunkered Bunkered wrote:



Politicians in general don't seem to know jack about anything, even politics.

fixed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 11:31am
I am for it. If I cant own a .50 cal, I don't see why anyone should have the guns they have.

It is not going to happen but that is what I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 11:45am
I'm not sure I quite understand what you just said Hades.

You want the ban to go into effect, but you also see no reason why any other caliber is different than .50 as far as being banned?

/me =
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 11:51am
It's NEW JERSEY.

That being the case, I am not surprised in the slightest.

Nice to have people looking to make laws of things they have no understanding of.

I can see how sheeple are fearful of 50BMG rifles... since TV has told them they can take down planes and shoot thru schools.
50cal blackpowder muzzleloader... is this anything like a 50BMG? Well... sheeple sees "50cal", so it must be the same.

Ban will probably go into effect. NJ is like that.

It could easily be bypassed by banning 50cal CENTERFIRE weapons, and excluding muzzleloading black powder rifles. But it won't be.

Again... it's New Jersey. The state that makes people have a Permit for an AIR RIFLE. Must be to protect Ralphie from shooting his eye out.

I'm waiting for them to enforce permits and registration of paintball guns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Fellows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 1:26pm
New Jersey should just break off and slide into the Atlantic Ocean.

P.S.:  I blame youm0nt.


Edited by Brian Fellows - 11 May 2007 at 1:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 1:30pm
Jersey = New Yorks garbage Dump. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_blade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 2:51pm
only the shore is^^^
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2007 at 3:09pm
OMG, Shorty used the term 'sheeple'. 
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