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Toilet Paper and other idiocy

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Brian Fellows View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Fellows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 7:52am
I'm going to build a man-powered generator to power my house.  It'll be run by slave labor.
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 10:00am

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

[Off-Subject Strawman Mischaracterizing Talking Points]

Change the subject much, OS?

How about this one:

Since when are waste and excess "conservative" values?  The sustainability movement is fundamentally about one thing:  reducing waste.

We have, as a society, come to the point where waste reduction doesn't even enter into people's mind at all.  People don't think it's "wasteful" to use three sheets of paper towel to clean up a small spill.  They might be annoyed that it filled up the garbage already, but the "waste" consideration is not there any more.

It wasn't always like this - and it isn't like this in other parts of the world today.

What we are advocating, OS, is nothing other than a return to a mindset of old - that waste is bad.  I would think that you would welcome and support a return to an old mindset, and particularly a conservative old mindset.

 



Edited by Clark Kent - 25 April 2007 at 10:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlimFlam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 10:40am

I would like to advocate the return of the "burn barrel".  Therefore I can just burn my trash...

I'm sure that burning plastic doesn't significantly contribute to any contaminates in the air...


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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 10:49am
Originally posted by FlimFlam FlimFlam wrote:

I would like to advocate the return of the "burn barrel".  Therefore I can just burn my trash...

I'm sure that burning plastic doesn't significantly contribute to any contaminates in the air...

Return?

I know plenty of folks that use a burn barrel today.  Plastics, batteries, whatever.  Then, when the barrel is full, they take the frontloader/backhoe and bury it out in the woods.

I don't see how any pollution could possibly result from that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlimFlam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 11:36am
Used to have one as a kid growing up.  Within city limits.  I think local ordinances made them illegal sometime around 1980.  I know most rural folks still use them.  Bad tongue in cheek example I guess...

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 11:38am

:)

 

And I still love your evolution-defying sig pic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 12:03pm
Clark, You seem to know a lot about this kind of stuff.

What is your opinion on garbage incinerators?

I know the county that I live in back home has a functioning landfill, but they also have a large incinerator that they use to burn off quite a bit of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 12:51pm
I actually don't know a thing about garbage incinerators - but I know some people that probably do.  I'll see what they think.
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 1:27pm
Saw this new incinerator on TV that uses plasma to melt anything into its base components. The only byproducts are hydrogen(I think) and this sort of non-toxic glass type substance that can be used in various industries or safely buried....Pretty cool stuff...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 1:51pm

On a separate note - I can prove that global warming is real:  Pirate attacks at an all-time low.

Of course, this may be due to the ninjas killing the pirates in their sleep, which means that global warming is the ninjas' fault.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mephistopheles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 2:23pm
Incinerators are cleaner than recycling.


As for Global Warming. It'll make all those baby seals easier to find. Lil bastards need a good clubbin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 12:33am
I'm still waiting for the nuclear winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 11:18am

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:



What is your opinion on garbage incinerators?

Ugh.  Just typed a response and deleted it by mistake.

Anyway:

I asked around.  The answer is "depends".

All incinerators are not the same, and all waste is not the same.  The result depends on what you put into what.  And, of course, it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

Many corporate polluters love incinerators, because it cuts off legal liability for contamination.  Hazardous waste in a landfill is perpetual exposure to legal liability.  With an incinerator, it is "gone", legally speaking.

As to whether incineration is "better" for the environment - that's a more complex question.

The good news is that many harmful substances are broken down and/or sequestered.  The bad news is that many other harmful substances are shot up into the air.

CO2, for instance is not generally sequestered or broken down by incinerators.  As a result, they increase the rate of CO2 release from waste as compared to a landfill.

Other hazardous waste, like mercury, are base elements and cannot be broken down (short of nuclear fission), but they can, and sometimes are, sequestered.

Yet other hazardous waste (like paints and whatnot) can be broken down by incineration, but the result is often more (different) hazardous waste, which may or may not be broken down or sequestered.

So - depends.  Is it "better" to accellerate CO2 emissions in exchange for removing mercury and other pollutants from the ground?

I don't know that there is a good answer for that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 1:03pm
Interesting.

Yeah, I guess there is no perfect system.

Also, I am curious to find out if this is true or not, but I have always been told that the county gives/sells/somethings the ash from the incinerator to local farmers, who can sew it into the ground between crop rotations to help add more nitrogen and alleviate nutrient over-leeching.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 1:11pm
I'm sure it is - byproduct sales is one the main sources of revenues for these things.  And not just incinerators - coal power plants have significant agreements for fly ash disposal.  All that dust that used to get blown into the air now gets carted away and (mostly) put to constructive use.  Win-win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 1:47pm
I look forward to the day we are able to make a viable application for cold fusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 4:54pm

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Interesting.

Yeah, I guess there is no perfect system.

Also, I am curious to find out if this is true or not, but I have always been told that the county gives/sells/somethings the ash from the incinerator to local farmers, who can sew it into the ground between crop rotations to help add more nitrogen and alleviate nutrient over-leeching.



No perfect system my ass

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 7:29pm
My question to the allseeing hooded monks who call me a heritic, and non-believer is:

If China will pass us in greenhouse gas emmisions, within 2 years, and is under no treatied restrictions, how much must we cut back in order to equalize the world greenhouse gas emmisions equation? If we are at critical mass now, do not all have to reduce emmisions of just the US. How much is our economy to suffer as China as "developing" nation can polute as required, in order to pass us as an economic power. And when is Al Gore going to admonish the Chinese for such illresponsible behavior.

Edited by oldsoldier - 26 April 2007 at 7:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 7:40pm

I have new double layer, super soft toilet paper.. would that still count as one sheet?

I use ALOT some pople say they use 3-4 each bathroom visit.. I use 3-4 each wipe (roll em into a ball)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 7:44pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

My question to the allseeing hooded monks who call me a heritic, and non-believer is:

If China will pass us in greenhouse gas emmisions, within 2 years, and is under no treatied restrictions, how much must we cut back in order to equalize the world greenhouse gas emmisions equation? If we are at critical mass now, do not all have to reduce emmisions of just the US. How much is our economy to suffer as China as "developing" nation can polute as required, in order to pass us as an economic power. And when is Al Gore going to admonish the Chinese for such illresponsible behavior.

Again with the distractions, the irrelevancies.  What does this have to do with anything?

They won't cut back, so we shouldn't bother? 

Everybody else is doing it?

Cutting off your nose to spite the face?

These are problems to be addressed, not excuses for not taking action.  I ask you again:  Is excess and waste a family value?

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