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VT Shootings- Some thoughts

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Tae Kwon Do View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:




And as far as the people who cry that they should have shut the campus down after the first one, that much is silly. Campuses for colleges are not meant to be locked down. They are built and designed to be free and open to the public. You cannot just shuffle out that many people at once.


I'll admit, I was in that camp at first, basing my thoughts on the fact that with this day and age, as soon as something like a shooting goes down, institutions usually lock up tighter than first night. Schools practice lockdown drills, emergency evacuation drills, and so on.





I agree. I think too many people are thinking in the high-school mindset.

High-schools can be locked down in the case of a shooting. Thats because high-schools are usually compact/stacked, gated off from the surrounding community by some sort of barrier, and have an intercom system that everyone can hear, no matter if you are in a classroom or not. Also, students in a high-school are typically only in classes. There are no dorms, no stores, no freedom. In high-school, keeping track and knowing where a student is at all times is something schools pride themselves on.


Colleges are not like this, but unfortunately people are treating them as such. Colleges, for the most part, don't have gates or borders, and on top of that, they usually have multiple entrances. They have large buildings sprawled out over masses of land. They have people who live on the campus itself. They have, on average, a bajillion people wandering the sidewalks. They have groundskeepers and speakers and interns and administrators and food service people, all on the campus.

How do you lock something like that down?

I mean, theoretically you could have an intercom system to let people in classrooms to stay locked in the classrooms and close and secure the doors.

What do you do with the tons of people in the various Student Unions, or any other large meeting area? What about the people in-between classes?

How do you mass-evacuate that many people? You would cause a horrendous bottleneck while leaving.


These are things that colleges need to start looking at, because most just simply do not have a good emergency procedure for anything.


Edited by Tae Kwon Do - 18 April 2007 at 12:45pm

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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:50pm

Actually *securing* a college campus would be a very daunting tactical proposition. You're talking about a LOT of people to maintain even a decent perimeter; never mind search teams and the like.

The best you can do is give those currently 'in charge' of a given room the appropriate key to lock it from the inside.

Really all you can do is enact target hardening measures- make it easier for those inside to lock themselves in and bunker up. Bulletproof windows in doors, etc...

There's no easy way, when all is said and done.



Edited by brihard - 18 April 2007 at 12:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


Isreal, and Switzerland have one of the lowest violent criminal act rates in the world, why, because everyone and every home has a gun and people are trained to use it, so Joe Criminal must take a chance he is not willing to, because getting shot back at is not as much fun or profitable for poor Joe Criminal.
I am not sure the reason for the low crime rates are due to the reasoning "that everyone else is armed, I am not going to commit crime."

Most criminals do not think along those lines.

I would venture to say that if more citizens were armed the rates of violence would only increase within our country.

FYI: "Since 1994, violent crime rates have declined, reaching the lowest level ever recorded in 2005." I doubt the reasons are because more conceal and carry permits were issued.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:15pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


Isreal, and Switzerland have one of the lowest violent criminal act rates in the world, why, because everyone and every home has a gun and people are trained to use it

Selective data much?

Besides, I have discovered the real reason for the VT shootings:  Teaching evolution in school.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:18pm
I can see how the argument for concealed carry can go either way. I'm not going to deny that I've carried a pistol around illegally, just to see what it feels like to have that "power," and I can see where people would be tempted to use a handgun to commit crimes. The reason? It would just be so damn easy.

However, most people who have a CCW are not the type of person who is going to commit a violent gun crime. They proved that point when they jumped through the legal hoops to make sure they don't get in trouble for having that gun. If they were just trying to rob/kill people, why not just carry the gun illegally? It would take a lot less time/money/effort, and it makes the gun less trackable by law enforcement.
Also, in Michigan, there are some accuracy standards required to get a CCW, so you don't have some ass who can't aim shooting innocent bystanders.
All states should have CCW laws, it's just a question of how they should be applied and what requirements a holder should have to fulfill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:25pm
Ugh, lock down a college campus? Here in Gainesville, trying to 'lock down' UF would be like trying to secure a district in Bagdad ... the UF campus makes up about a quarter of the Gainesville downtown area, that would be insane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:38pm
Umass Amherst riots only end when police go out in riot control mode. so locking down a campus is damn hard to do. i'll agree with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by c4cypher c4cypher wrote:

Ugh, lock down a college campus? Here in Gainesville, trying to 'lock down' UF would be like trying to secure a district in Bagdad ... the UF campus makes up about a quarter of the Gainesville downtown area, that would be insane.


There is no Gainesville.

There is UF, and......UF.

The rest is nasty swamp.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 1:43pm

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:


The rest is nasty swamp.

True ... but it's OUR swamp. ... and it's got two Taco Bell outlets ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by c4cypher c4cypher wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:


The rest is nasty swamp.

True ... but it's OUR swamp. ... and it's got two Taco Bell outlets ...



Hehe.

When I was touring colleges, I hit 441 north. I found UF, and wondered where the rest of the town was.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:18pm
*laughs* Hey, it could be worse ... I could be living in Talahassee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by c4cypher c4cypher wrote:

*laughs* Hey, it could be worse ... I could be living in Talahassee


I probably would have considered it if they had a journalism program.

I am quite content living in Orlando though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:22pm

Ever been to Rocky Creek Paintball? It's just south of Gainesville on Archer road.

*glances around*

*ahem*

Anyway ... all this media harping over gun control and VT isn't going to fix the problem ... won't do any good until all the details come to light.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:25pm
No, I have never played in Gainesville. I have really only gone up that way to tour and get info from UF. Once I decided on UCF I have not had the need to head that way.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Da Hui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:25pm

I havn't. Its like a meeting of Florida residents in this thread now... 904 kids.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Da Hui Da Hui wrote:

I havn't. Its like a meeting of Florida residents in this thread now... 904 kids.



My grandparents live on the First Coast.


C4cypher and I probably could make local calls to each other. My cellphone has a Lake County number, which is the southernmost county for the 352 area code.





Edited by Tae Kwon Do - 18 April 2007 at 2:28pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 2:41pm

Oh snap ... you're right ...

*edit*

Hold the phone ... you came up 441 to UF ... most of Gainesville is to the north and west of UF ... you saw the city, but you certainly didn't see all of it.



Edited by c4cypher - 18 April 2007 at 2:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 4:26pm
I'll go with ya here OS, even though you complained about politicizing this like 2 sentences after you did just that.

And Whale, I think you've accomplished the impossible. You changed my mind about the whole "shoulda locked it down" thing....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 4:27pm

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

I'll go with ya here OS, even though you complained about politicizing this like 2 sentences after you did just that.

And Whale, I think you've accomplished the impossible. You changed my mind about the whole "shoulda locked it down" thing....

A call came into Va Tech police today threatening the life of their President. It came in due to the amount of criticism on the President's actions during the situation. Yet another scare for a campus and town that does not need it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cedric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2007 at 5:22pm
OS doesn't need to post in the already existing thread. He just wants some attention.

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