VT Shootings- Some thoughts

Reb Cpl wrote: Tae Kwon Do wrote: And as far as the people who cry that they should have shut the campus down after the first one, that much is silly. Campuses for colleges are not meant to be locked down. They are built and designed to be free and open to the public. You cannot just shuffle out that many people at once. I'll admit, I was in that camp at first, basing my thoughts on the fact that with this day and age, as soon as something like a shooting goes down, institutions usually lock up tighter than first night. Schools practice lockdown drills, emergency evacuation drills, and so on.

I agree. I think too many people are thinking in the high-school mindset.

High-schools can be locked down in the case of a shooting. Thats because high-schools are usually compact/stacked, gated off from the surrounding community by some sort of barrier, and have an intercom system that everyone can hear, no matter if you are in a classroom or not. Also, students in a high-school are typically only in classes. There are no dorms, no stores, no freedom. In high-school, keeping track and knowing where a student is at all times is something schools pride themselves on.


Colleges are not like this, but unfortunately people are treating them as such. Colleges, for the most part, don't have gates or borders, and on top of that, they usually have multiple entrances. They have large buildings sprawled out over masses of land. They have people who live on the campus itself. They have, on average, a bajillion people wandering the sidewalks. They have groundskeepers and speakers and interns and administrators and food service people, all on the campus.

How do you lock something like that down?

I mean, theoretically you could have an intercom system to let people in classrooms to stay locked in the classrooms and close and secure the doors.

What do you do with the tons of people in the various Student Unions, or any other large meeting area? What about the people in-between classes?

How do you mass-evacuate that many people? You would cause a horrendous bottleneck while leaving.


These are things that colleges need to start looking at, because most just simply do not have a good emergency procedure for anything.


Edited by Tae Kwon Do - 18 April 2007 at 12:45pm

oldsoldier wrote: Isreal, and Switzerland have one of the lowest violent criminal act rates in the world, why, because everyone and every home has a gun and people are trained to use it, so Joe Criminal must take a chance he is not willing to, because getting shot back at is not as much fun or profitable for poor Joe Criminal.

I am not sure the reason for the low crime rates are due to the reasoning "that everyone else is armed, I am not going to commit crime."

Most criminals do not think along those lines.

I would venture to say that if more citizens were armed the rates of violence would only increase within our country.

FYI: "Since 1994, violent crime rates have declined, reaching the lowest level ever recorded in 2005." I doubt the reasons are because more conceal and carry permits were issued.

Source:

I can see how the argument for concealed carry can go either way. I'm not going to deny that I've carried a pistol around illegally, just to see what it feels like to have that "power," and I can see where people would be tempted to use a handgun to commit crimes. The reason? It would just be so damn easy.

However, most people who have a CCW are not the type of person who is going to commit a violent gun crime. They proved that point when they jumped through the legal hoops to make sure they don't get in trouble for having that gun. If they were just trying to rob/kill people, why not just carry the gun illegally? It would take a lot less time/money/effort, and it makes the gun less trackable by law enforcement.
Also, in Michigan, there are some accuracy standards required to get a CCW, so you don't have some ass who can't aim shooting innocent bystanders.
All states should have CCW laws, it's just a question of how they should be applied and what requirements a holder should have to fulfill.

Umass Amherst riots only end when police go out in riot control mode. so locking down a campus is damn hard to do. i'll agree with that.

Tae Kwon Do wrote: The rest is nasty swamp.

True ... but it's OUR swamp. ... and it's got two Taco Bell outlets ...

*laughs* Hey, it could be worse ... I could be living in Talahassee

Ever been to Rocky Creek Paintball? It's just south of Gainesville on Archer road.

*glances around*

*ahem*

Anyway ... all this media harping over gun control and VT isn't going to fix the problem ... won't do any good until all the details come to light.

I havn't. Its like a meeting of Florida residents in this thread now... 904 kids.

Oh snap ... you're right ...

*edit*

Hold the phone ... you came up 441 to UF ... most of Gainesville is to the north and west of UF ... you saw the city, but you certainly didn't see all of it.

Edited by c4cypher - 18 April 2007 at 2:45pm

.Ryan wrote: I'll go with ya here OS, even though you complained about politicizing this like 2 sentences after you did just that. And Whale, I think you've accomplished the impossible. You changed my mind about the whole "shoulda locked it down" thing....

A call came into Va Tech police today threatening the life of their President. It came in due to the amount of criticism on the President's actions during the situation. Yet another scare for a campus and town that does not need it.