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Pariel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2007 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

It's not like you can take an M1911 mag and stack the rounds staggered in it and make it hold more than 7 rounds.


Sure you can, with a little bit of engineering.

It requires a new magazine, and probably a new frame, but it's certainly possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 April 2007 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by Pariel Pariel wrote:

Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

It's not like you can take an M1911 mag and stack the rounds staggered in it and make it hold more than 7 rounds.


Sure you can, with a little bit of engineering.

It requires a new magazine, and probably a new frame, but it's certainly possible.
 A new frame in means a new gun. That's the serial numbered part. Slides, barrels etc. can be swapped no problem, but a new frame is a new gun. There are plenty of  M1911 type pistols out there with double stacked larger capacity mags. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 1:02am
The Para Ord style "High cap weapons" hold 14 rounds of .45 ACP, and 18 rounds of .40 S&W. Pretty much easy to consider them "High capacity" when compared to other weapon systems.

The Galil based Vektor LM6 weapons we use have 35 round 5.56mm mags, making your silly little STANAG M16 mags "low capacity". However we can't use C-Mags for true "high capacity".

Many people here also use M1 cabines with 15 round capacity mags, but people use 30 round "high capacity mags".

There are a couple of people here who use FN-FAL based R1 rifles, same deal. They come standard from the factory with 20 round mags, yet people use high capacity 30 rounders.

It's not the numbers that make them high capacity, it's the numbers they provide compared to normal issue mags. The waters in the USA have been muddied by the media and the law makers dubbing standard capacity mags over 10 rounds as "high capacity" when they are actually not.

Like Brian said, if you make an extended 20 round mag for a 1911, this can be considered a high capacity mag. Glock manufacture a 31 round 9x19mm mag for their Glock 18, which happens to fit in my Glock 26, and I can get +2 shoes for it, Iw would also consider this a high capacity magazine because it isn't the standard Glock 26 mag. The 13 rounders I carry in my Glock 26 aren't by my definition high capacity, but the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban from the USA would legally consider them such.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 7:55am
Glock 19 ... mmm ... Maximum rate of fire ... minimum control of weapon ... still, it's sweet to watch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 8:04am
Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

Originally posted by Pariel Pariel wrote:

Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

It's not like you can take an M1911 mag and stack the rounds staggered in it and make it hold more than 7 rounds.
Sure you can, with a little bit of engineering. It requires a new magazine, and probably a new frame, but it's certainly possible.
A new frame in means a new gun. That's the serial numbered part. Slides, barrels etc. can be swapped no problem, but a new frame is a new gun. There are plenty of M1911 type pistols out there with double stacked larger capacity mags.


The day you can shoot someone with a frame, you come back and call me.

Also, aren't slides on most pistols numbered as well? I know my friend's Beretta has matching serial numbers on slide and frame...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 8:27am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

The Para Ord style "High cap weapons" hold 14 rounds of .45 ACP, and 18 rounds of .40 S&W. Pretty much easy to consider them "High capacity" when compared to other weapon systems.

The Galil based Vektor LM6 weapons we use have 35 round 5.56mm mags, making your silly little STANAG M16 mags "low capacity". ".
KBK

Standard Issue M16 Magazines are 30 rounds. Thats not to bad at all. I dont see how you could consider it low.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 10:19am
Originally posted by Pariel Pariel wrote:

The day you can shoot someone with a frame, you come back and call me.

Also, aren't slides on most pistols numbered as well? I know my friend's Beretta has matching serial numbers on slide and frame...


Does it count if I throw the frame at someone?

Actually... the frame is what is considered the "firearm". The slide/upper is not. At least by legal standards. I can get an AR15 or 1911 upper half sent to my house, no paperwork, no checks, no transfer fee. It's not considered a firearm. (Just had a M16A1 upper half delivered to my house a couple weeks ago, in fact)
But the frame of the 1911 or lower receiver of the AR are just as restricted, by themselves, as a complete firearm.

Yes, slides are numbered in many cases as well. My CZ has serial numbers stamped on the barrel, frame and slide. My pocket Berettas only on the frame itself.


Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Standard Issue M16 Magazines are 30 rounds. Thats not to bad at all. I dont see how you could consider it low.
I believe his statement was more in jest than anything else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 12:42pm
I know for a fact that you can buy anything from impact firearms and get it sent to your home adress except the frame. If you buy the whole gun or just the frame it's got to be sent to a local firearms dealer. But you can get the barrels sent to your home adress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 4:43pm
yeah unless you live in mass. for some odd reason i cant buy after market m16 magazines because they are "high capacity" because they are 30 rounds. but the after marker ones i'd get are the new ones that are heavier and more durable than the crappy H&K ones i am issued. i think they are H&K.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 7:48pm
I've only ever heard good things about the H&K mags--but I'd be surprised by the US military buying them, as they're really expensive. Same restrictions here in NJ too though.

The law says the frame is a firearm because it's got a firing pin in it--you only need to replace the frame itself, not the firing pin, for a double stack mag to work in a gun (although depending on your mag design it could be difficult to get the internals to function, but that's another story).

A gun is a gun--if it doesn't fire bullets, it's not a gun. End of story. I don't care about the lack of logic present in the law, you don't bring your pistol frame to a gun fight, nor your lower receiver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by Pariel Pariel wrote:

I've only ever heard good things about the H&K mags--but I'd be surprised by the US military buying them, as they're really expensive. Same restrictions here in NJ too though.

The law says the frame is a firearm because it's got a firing pin in it--you only need to replace the frame itself, not the firing pin, for a double stack mag to work in a gun (although depending on your mag design it could be difficult to get the internals to function, but that's another story).

A gun is a gun--if it doesn't fire bullets, it's not a gun. End of story. I don't care about the lack of logic present in the law, you don't bring your pistol frame to a gun fight, nor your lower receiver.


Actually the law makes perfect sense- for any law regarding firearms to work, firearm has to be defined. Since you can buy them in individual parts, a single common part needs to be defined that allows all firearms to be subject to law the same way. Might as well be the frame of a pistol or the receiver of a rifle.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Yup, he actually said that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 7:52pm
An AR-15 lower does not contain a firing pin but counts as a firearm. A bolt does, but does not count as a rifle. I dont know where you're getting this info, but it is usually the part of the rifle the contains the feeding device that counts as a firearm. I dont how else to explain that a pistol frame counts as a firearm. Guess you should try to get one sent to you through the mail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 9:01pm

I too, am confused as to where you're getting your info. The above shows a stripped lower receiver. No internal parts whatsoever. No firing pin. Yet it alone is considered the firearm. Firing pin shouldn't haven anything to do with it.

There are guns that do not fire bullets, too.   

And I'd bring my frame and/or lower receiver to a gun fight every time. Of course, I'd have all the other parts too.   

I still don't understand the hubbub about HK mags. Yes, I know they are of fine quality... but so fine as to warrant 3-4x the cost? I'll take 3 D&H Teflons with MPFs over one HK mag for the price.
That said... if the mags you were issued Kris, were 'crappy' and lighter weight, I highly doubt they were HKs. HKs are steel (heavier)... issued mags are aluminum.
My guess is that your issued mags are fine quality... just beat up and abused? Slap a new spring and follower in them and I'd guess they'd be fine. USGI mags are much more highly regarded than aftermarkets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pariel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 9:09pm
I'm not disagreeing--the law does in fact state that they are firearms.

I guess I'm wrong about the lowers, and even the pistol frames--the truth is that I don't know much about firearms except how to shoot them--but frankly, you're ignoring the point.

A gun is only a gun if it has all it's parts--if you're going to argue otherwise, you are patently wrong. You can continue to throw crap argument come up with by borderline gun-retarded lawmakers at me, but it doesn't make me less right.

I'm sorry, but can you explain the guns without bullets? We can change the term to "projectiles" if you prefer that--it's still a bullet.

Most of the people in this thread are disregarding the actual meaning of words for literal definitions, and you can continue to do so--it doesn't make you right though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 April 2007 at 9:12pm
Projectiles works for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2007 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:


Standard Issue M16 Magazines are 30 rounds. Thats not to bad at all. I dont see how you could consider it low.


I was being rude. When compared to a standard capacity LM6 mag, which holds 35 rounds, an M16's 30 rounder is a "low capacity" mag.

I was poking fun at the law makers in the USA, and the gun grabbers who want to ban "High capacity" mags, which hold the standard ammount of ammo. In the M16's case, 30 rounds.

But they should just be glad the Galil isn'tthe standard weapon of the US army, then people would have 35 round mags :)

Locally it's the gun barrel that's the registered part of the weapon. I can replace my frame, my slide, and all the internals at whim. But I can't replace ym barrel without a new firearm license.

They are busy in the process of changing the laws to include ALL the major parts of a gun, slide, frame and barrel. As well as outlawing supressors :(


KBK

Edited by Kayback - 10 April 2007 at 3:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2007 at 6:15pm
So you'd basically be buying two or three guns at one if the barrel, bolt and upper and lower receiver count as a firearm. Our way probably makes more sense since you can go through multiple barrels in the life of a firearm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2007 at 6:23pm
Tell me something I DON'T know. Fortunately replacing barrels is easy enough, you just need a gun smith to say it needs doing.

The first draft of the new laws said EVERY part of the gun was going to be registered. Barrel, frame, slide, trigger, recoil spring, recoild guide rod, hammer, hammer spring, mag release buttong, slide stop...... you see where I'm heading.

There is also a very ambigious part of the draft they are fighting which says only a registered, acredited gunsmith can "work" on a firearm, but they don't say 1) what is defined as work, is field stripping a firearm work? If it's work that requires tools, I can't replace the grip pannels on my gun? 2) what about machenists who want to work on their own guns.

Have I ever mentioned on this forum how much I hate law makers?

KBK

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 April 2007 at 10:58pm
Speaking of mags, how are the composite Tapco mags? Great or garbage? im just curious, not looking into them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2007 at 7:59am
Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

Speaking of mags, how are the composite Tapco mags? Great or garbage? im just curious, not looking into them
For the SKS? Dunno. Supposed to be pretty good.
Haven't brought my SKS to the range yet to try it.
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