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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 11:27am

On the jamming - might it be user error?

I haven't shot this gun, but whenever I shoot automatics with lighter loads I get jams on occasion.  When I ask for help from smarter people, they unload with no problems whatsoever.  Apparently I don't keep my arm firm enough, and the give in my arm reduces the recoil effect just enough to where the gun doesn't cock properly.  Particularly true if the gun isn't super-clean.

So now I stick to heavier loads to compensate for my poor technique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4cypher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 11:29am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

bah. You want recoil?

Magnum Research .45/70 or .500 revolvers.

 

I'll see your Magnum research and raise you one 45-70 Derringer...

Teh wristwrecker FTW.

Don't do it! If he's got a SW 500 on the table, he's got to have somthing huge in his hand.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Rambino Rambino wrote:

On the jamming - might it be user error?

I haven't shot this gun, but whenever I shoot automatics with lighter loads I get jams on occasion.  When I ask for help from smarter people, they unload with no problems whatsoever.  Apparently I don't keep my arm firm enough, and the give in my arm reduces the recoil effect just enough to where the gun doesn't cock properly.  Particularly true if the gun isn't super-clean.

So now I stick to heavier loads to compensate for my poor technique.



Probably a good guess. Limpwristing it is a common cause of misfeeds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 12:58pm

I know that waist shooting isn't good for jams either, saved my gd life once.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Razgriz Ghost Razgriz Ghost wrote:

The M1911 can be very accurate when handled properly, train with it and you'll get it. I find what helps with accuracy is using smaller calibur guns and moving up from there. My first pistol is going to be a Springfeild Mil-spec M1911 and with it I'm purchasing a .22 conversion kit, getting good with that and then trying the .45 but keeping the .22 for plinking becuase it's expensive ass to go out and buy a box of .45's so that I can shoot at golf balls.

Sound advice.
I'd love to get any kind of training in proper grip/stance/etc. Right now, I'm trying to self-learn based on what I think are my mistakes. Not an ideal way to go about things. I'm also finding that my eagle-eyes decided to pack up and head south. I have extreme difficulty focusing on handgun sights. Rifle sights are still fine... but handgun sights+target is one big blur to me now. Not sure if it's just me getting old... or possibly CVS?
I am a big proponent of 22 conversions! If anything, just for the cost. I have a Kadet kit for my P01, and just purchased a M16A1 (1:12) upper to slap a Ciener kit in for a dedicated 22 AR.   With 9mm exceeding 17c/rd, 45ACP exceeding 23c/rd and 223 exceeding 29c/rd (and more pending cost increases)... getting some trigger time with 22LR at 1.9c/rd works better for me. As stated, my accuracy is such that using the centerfire rounds while I'm in my 'learning stages' is unnecessary.
Not sure which kit I'll get for the 1911.   My 1911 wasn't on my budget to begin with, so the conversion kit is a long ways off... maybe a Marvel, eventually.

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I just don't like smaller caliber pistols. "If you're going to rely on something with limited range, don't limit your stopping power." is my adopted mantra concerning pistols.
That being said, I don't do much pistol shooting in general. No permit as yet, ammo and guns being expensive....I've confined myself to long arms. Like you Shorty, I just don't believe myself accurate enough.

I have no problems with the smaller cals. The only defensive use of a firearm I would ever anticipate would be within my own home (I don't plan on carrying, even though I can). And whereas a 45 definitely has more ooomph to it, I figure if it doesn't go down with multiple 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dots... then I'm screwed either way.   For my primary purposes of punching holes thru paper... 22s and 9s do me fine.
Posts stating that the recoil of the 1911 is not as bad as I anticipate are comforting. All in all, I'd like every firearm in my house to be easily handled and used by my wife should (FSM forbid) the need ever arise. And if recoil is an issue for me, it's double for her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:37pm
If your big concern for self defense is within your own home, why not get a pump action shotgun? Nothing says "Get out of my house" like the sound of a slide being racked in the next room...
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rambino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:39pm

Unfortunately, to get full effect from the slide-racking sound, you have to keep doing it every time the bad guy moves - just like how they keep right on racking their shotguns in movies.

And you run out of cartridges fast that way.

:)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:42pm
Nah, it's a sound that carries in a dark house at night... 

That said, there's some benefit in a pistol with a tac-light on it too. Much more convenient to move around with... Plus shining a bright-ass light in someone's face will often 'stun' them for a vital few seconds; long enough to determine if they're armed or not.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:48pm

Originally posted by ShortyBP ShortyBP wrote:

Originally posted by Razgriz Ghost Razgriz Ghost wrote:

The M1911 can be very accurate when handled properly, train with it and you'll get it. I find what helps with accuracy is using smaller calibur guns and moving up from there. My first pistol is going to be a Springfeild Mil-spec M1911 and with it I'm purchasing a .22 conversion kit, getting good with that and then trying the .45 but keeping the .22 for plinking becuase it's expensive ass to go out and buy a box of .45's so that I can shoot at golf balls.

Sound advice.
I'd love to get any kind of training in proper grip/stance/etc. Right now, I'm trying to self-learn based on what I think are my mistakes. Not an ideal way to go about things. I'm also finding that my eagle-eyes decided to pack up and head south. I have extreme difficulty focusing on handgun sights. Rifle sights are still fine... but handgun sights+target is one big blur to me now. Not sure if it's just me getting old... or possibly CVS?
I am a big proponent of 22 conversions! If anything, just for the cost. I have a Kadet kit for my P01, and just purchased a M16A1 (1:12) upper to slap a Ciener kit in for a dedicated 22 AR.   With 9mm exceeding 17c/rd, 45ACP exceeding 23c/rd and 223 exceeding 29c/rd (and more pending cost increases)... getting some trigger time with 22LR at 1.9c/rd works better for me. As stated, my accuracy is such that using the centerfire rounds while I'm in my 'learning stages' is unnecessary.
Not sure which kit I'll get for the 1911.   My 1911 wasn't on my budget to begin with, so the conversion kit is a long ways off... maybe a Marvel, eventually.

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

I just don't like smaller caliber pistols. "If you're going to rely on something with limited range, don't limit your stopping power." is my adopted mantra concerning pistols.
That being said, I don't do much pistol shooting in general. No permit as yet, ammo and guns being expensive....I've confined myself to long arms. Like you Shorty, I just don't believe myself accurate enough.

I have no problems with the smaller cals. The only defensive use of a firearm I would ever anticipate would be within my own home (I don't plan on carrying, even though I can). And whereas a 45 definitely has more ooomph to it, I figure if it doesn't go down with multiple 9mm 124gr +P Gold Dots... then I'm screwed either way.   For my primary purposes of punching holes thru paper... 22s and 9s do me fine.
Posts stating that the recoil of the 1911 is not as bad as I anticipate are comforting. All in all, I'd like every firearm in my house to be easily handled and used by my wife should (FSM forbid) the need ever arise. And if recoil is an issue for me, it's double for her.

My thing with a smaller calibur is this, it's all about practicality, are you aiming to kill or neutralize? I agree with the point brought up about the effective range of a pistol but think about it, would you really use a pistol for anything other than CQC? And would you use a rifle for CQC? Rifles are designed for range, pistols for the lack there of, so when your three or four feet from an assialent, as you're going to be in a home, use the .22, cheaper, quieter and if you shoot him in the eye, which from that range is so not an issue, it'll go through and bounce around in his skull, and if you don't want to kill the guy, then shoot him in the kneecaps. Again increased distances will weaken the intensity of the shot, I know some of my physics, but you aren't going to be far enough away for at least a 9mm not to be sufficient.



Edited by Razgriz Ghost - 02 April 2007 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panda Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

If your big concern for self defense is within your own home, why not get a pump action shotgun? Nothing says "Get out of my house" like the sound of a slide being racked in the next room...


thats exactly my thoughts.

I think pistols are pretty much worthless unless your some sort of police officer... My G/F's Dad has a Glock and I don't like shooting that thing at all, besides a .44 mag I don't think any pistol has ever "won me over" yet... though I haven't tried a Full-auto Glock yet... that would be awesome to use...  Oh well I'll just take my 7mm and AK-47 somewhere else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 2:00pm
Glocks are not good firearms to test out your interest in handguns in, and used effectivly a handgun in the right places can be much more desirable than a rifle, ie what I was explaining with CQC. I wouldn't want to try weilding an AK-47 in my 3 foot wide hallway, the thing and I would equal almost four feet, much more than the hallway and I definatly want to swing around with my gun drawn than have to put it down turn and bring it up and I know it takes longer to say than do but every second counts in situations like that. Same goes for a shotgun, and forget waist gunning one of the two, I shoot a rifle from the shoulder, that's how your supposed to.

Edited by Razgriz Ghost - 02 April 2007 at 2:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 3:51pm
In the small confines of my house, a 12ga or other long-gun would be overkill.

I can keep my P01 with taclight and Crimson Trace grips in the quick access safe within reach of my bed... and it's ready. If they can hear me racking the slide... that's as close as I'll get to the racking-pump sound (no chambered rounds in my house due to fire safety concerns).
Where would I put a 12ga? I need to balance easy-access for myself, vs easy-access for an intruder. Small quick-access handgun safe wins for the bedroom.
If I have to move to a different room, or go up/down stairs to meet the threat (in case my wife was not in the same room with me)... a long gun would be unwieldy.

If I'm in the basement and a break-in occurs, before I acquired the 1911... my only viable option was my 16" AR. I did eyeball a 12ga pump this weekend... but decided against it. I do know that racking the slide is a good incentive for someone to leave... but with my line of thinking, if they've made it inside my home with bad intent, I'm not interested in communicating. I'm only interested in neutralizing.

I do have a couple of 22s I could grab, but they would only be if there was nothing else. I'm not going to kid myself and say I could shoot someone in the eye (or head), even at less than 15ft. As much as I am a proponent for shot-placement above all other factors... when the [Stuff]HTF, I won't expect the time necessary for me to get true focus on target and aim for a 1x1" area. Especially in low-light, or having just been awakened from sleep. Nor will I be doing any 'knee cap' or otherwise 'injure' shots.
Self-defense within my home, is all or nothing. If there is enough need to warrant my use of a firearm... it will be my one goal to put down the threat, permanently. And I continuously hope that never occurs. Lifetime success with firearms for me, is never firing any of my guns at anything other than an inanimate object, within the confines of a range facility.

But if the zombies come... I'd like to think that I'm ready for them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:03pm
, but in seriousness you get good enough with a .22 and the whole eye / kneecap thing will just happen like without even thinking about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:33pm
It could be user error. I dont know, I am more familiar with the M16 and M249 because thats what I use in the Marines.

Pistols arent where I am yet. I had no problem clearing it I jsut found it frustrating.

I guess its time for me to get qualified on the service pistol eh? If only I was able to in the reserves, oh well. but the 5.7 is wicked nice. I love all the anti gun crowds controversy behind it too. Large capacity magazine too. 20 rounds. not to bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:42pm
I'll stick with a decent .40 cal pistol any day. That's a round that has never let me down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:54pm
Well just the sheer fact that the five seven uses the m16 round should be grounds for it being used as military personal sidearms anyway. Same round = less need to carry extra ammo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShortyBP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:55pm
Not the same round.

5.7x28 vs 5.56x45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Razgriz Ghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 4:57pm

I thought it was the same round as one of the assualt rifles. Oh well nvm then, it's still sweet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Razgriz Ghost Razgriz Ghost wrote:

I thought it was the same round as one of the assualt rifles. Oh well nvm then, it's still sweet.



Yeah, according to anti-gun crowd it is.

They call is a "cop killer" because the rounds sold to government and law people is capable of penetrating kevlar helmets and vests. Those rounds are impossible to get really. The civilian rounds are incapable of penetrating kevlar helmets and vests.

Also if you really wanted to get a round go penetrate I am sure when you purchase that .50 cal rifle you want you'll have no problem shooting through kevlar. so anti-gun crowd that states that its a cop killer is lieing because they refuse to look at the fact that the civlian rounds cant go through kevlar where as government and military and law rounds can. I believe they are called the SS190 or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2007 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by Razgriz Ghost Razgriz Ghost wrote:

I thought it was the same round as one of the assualt rifles. Oh well nvm then, it's still sweet.



Yeah, according to anti-gun crowd it is.

They call is a "cop killer" because the rounds sold to government and law people is capable of penetrating kevlar helmets and vests. Those rounds are impossible to get really. The civilian rounds are incapable of penetrating kevlar helmets and vests.

Also if you really wanted to get a round go penetrate I am sure when you purchase that .50 cal rifle you want you'll have no problem shooting through kevlar. so anti-gun crowd that states that its a cop killer is lieing because they refuse to look at the fact that the civlian rounds cant go through kevlar where as government and military and law rounds can. I believe they are called the SS190 or something.

Please, please do some more research, then edit this post.

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