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usafpilot07 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2007 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Oh.. i felt abused.. so did everyone in my platoon. I dont care what anyone says.. you DO get "corrected" in boot. And sometimes thrown against the whiskey locker and arm barred and kicked....     I was at right shoulder one time and the M16 wasnt tight to my shoulder... I learned after that.
My SDI seemed to do a pretty good job of making us think any physical contact was for our own good, and even asked if anybody had a probelm being touched, and those recruits(most figured it was a trap and said nothing) who said they had problem never got too jacked up. The rest of us got full out oldschool handling. I'd much rather get kicked in the chest than spend 45min on the quarter deck. Getting quarterdecked until you cant pass a PFTand get dropped is a lot worse than being sore for a day tops. I was picked up by the throat, tossed into stuff, hit in the face with: blue money and bible bag, M-16, hygene kit, moonbeam etc and sure it sucked, but aside from one nosebleed it wasn't anything that caused injury or pain for more than a few seconds.



That's bull. I have no problem correcting my recruits without hitting them...


One does not need to be physically violent to get a point across. Those who are not motivated to sort themselves out without getting punched in the head probably have no business being there anyway. I personally have no use for soldiers who are utterly blind followers and who don't think for themselves- that kind of abusive instructional style quashes the same personal characteristics that later develop into leadership ability...



its not bull. I was thrown into my footlocker one day and they tried shutting it on me. hahahaha that was hilarious. another day i was picked up by my web belt at the rifle range because i didnt move fast enough to the next task while moving into the new house, so the drill hat threw me, literally like five feet to the other side of the squad bay. that was hilarious, i am doing something next thing i knew i was in the air and landing on the squad bay. not near where i was.

I can accomplish the same thing with a few harsh words and some motivational PT. Pretty much all day today, in fact, I've been on and off teaching/assisting with drill and weapons lectures, as well as inspecting troops and jacking them up for their deficiences. They tend to learn pretty well this way. I stand by what I said with regards to the dangers of unbridled aggression in a soldier- our violent tendencies are supposed to be finely controlled.

I don't want soldiers who will follow unquestioningly becuase of fear of the consequences of not doing so. I want soldiers who will follow without hesitation and react according to their training as appropriate, but still being comfortable and self confident enough with pointing out when things aren't right. The way I see it, I need my soldiers at least as much as they need me; I don't want them being afraid of me; that's not the right kind of respect to instill in intelligent people.



We ARE talking about the Marines now...
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Linus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2007 at 11:48pm
Brihard...

Canadian Army =/= US Marines.


USAF.... you dont have to be dumb to be a grunt in the Marines.

I got an 88 on the asvab, 3.5 gpa in school, and yet I joined as a grunt. I knew people in my platoon who got over 90 on the asvab.

Edited by Linus - 17 March 2007 at 11:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2007 at 9:28am
The asvab test is easy.  My friend didnt even try on it and a week later he had the Navy contacting him about some job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2007 at 1:54pm

The ASVAB is easy as hell if someone with my schoolastic ability could get a 90 on it.

My point about physical contact is that it's faster to learn. A DI will usually go right down the line and can just knock every elbow he sees sticking out back into position. If someone's obviously doesn't get it, they'll usually stop, tell them how they're jacked up and fix their position. Most recruits are just being sloppy or forgetful, so a pop in the elbow is all they need to remind them of the correct position. Explaining to every idiot would take way too much time. Again, its muscle memory. If you smack your head on an overhanging pipe every time you go into the basement, you'll eventually remember to duck.

Getting used to physical contact helps with combat skills. That's why they get on your case for plenty of things in martial arts training. If you're practicing weapons retention, you guys trying to get your weapon should really be trying to hang onto it, or you're wasting training.

If they tell you to jump onto a bridge, beat the hell out of someone with a pugil stick who's going to trying to do the same to you, you'd better not hesitate at being hit or you're going to lose. There's no way someone who's afraid of getting touched should be there, especially when job requirements can involve sticking a bayonett into somebody's skull.

I'd say I'd much rather get pushed around by a DI than get so worn out from quarterdecking I not only miss whatever training is going on, but run the risk of being too weakend to pass physical requirements, or being worn out, slow and stupid and attract more attention. I saw plenty of recruits getting dragged to medical because they got pitted or quarterdecked badly. Never saw anyone who had to go there because a DI touched them. I DI knows how to avoid harming a recruit when they touch them. A recruit might do side-straddle hops until his heart pops and never complain.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2007 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Brihard...

Canadian Army =/= US Marines.


USAF.... you dont have to be dumb to be a grunt in the Marines.

I got an 88 on the asvab, 3.5 gpa in school, and yet I joined as a grunt. I knew people in my platoon who got over 90 on the asvab.



You should probably report that broken Sarcasm Detector to your Quarter Master...
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Kristofer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kristofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2007 at 7:40pm
um, correct me if I read the last few posts wrong. But did people just say Marines arent intelligent and especially the Grunts in the Marines? I do pretty well in school if thats the case. so I dono.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2007 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

um, correct me if I read the last few posts wrong. But did people just say Marines arent intelligent and especially the Grunts in the Marines? I do pretty well in school if thats the case. so I dono.

You read it wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote holysmartone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:47am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:


Different mentalities I suppose.

It's funny; these kids are always so flustered and panicky... We've got 'em preparing for a big inspection in another 45 minutes, which they will of course fail; they've been bagging it all weekend so we're gonna keep 'em busy.

 

By and alrge though they're good kids, and most of them will make decent soldiers once they're through all their training. In any case, the leadership and instructional thing is a cool experience.


Marines dont want intelligant thinkers, they want killing machines that will follow orders no matter what.

And believe me, quaterdecking will help you remember something yes, but if you get punched in the stomach every time you screw up, you wont do it a second time. It teaches 10 times faster then IT does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 10:17am

WARNING - Rude/blunt/elitist post follows.

Originally posted by Kristofer Kristofer wrote:

um, correct me if I read the last few posts wrong. But did people just say Marines arent intelligent and especially the Grunts in the Marines? I do pretty well in school if thats the case. so I dono.

All things are relative.

A conservative blogger/columnist (Steve Sailer) recently determined that the average IQ of enlisted men in the military as a whole is 105, which would put it slightly above the national average (100).  He didn't specify numbers, but concluded that the Air Force has the highest average enlisted IQ, followed by the Navy, and then Army/Marines.  So presumably the Marines are somewhere below 105.  Sailer concludes from this that the military is smarter than average folk.  Take that, librals.

Assuming his numbers are correct, Sailer's conclusion is both accurate and misleading.

Let's say that grunts in the USMC have an average IQ of 103.  That makes them just a tad smarter than average.  But here's the rub:  "Average" means you count EVERYBODY, including the retards in the home and the drooling idiot who is barely smarter than your pet rabbit. 

To the kind of people that sit around on internet forums debating the intelligence of Marine grunts, "average" is abysmally stupid.  The average IQ for college grads usually hovers around 115, which is a world apart from "average".  I would wager that the average IQ on any internet forum - even this one - is significantly higher than "average", and significantly higher than the USMC average.

When somebody tells me "average IQ", I hear "stupid".  I know that this is incorrect, statistically speaking for the entire population, but I don't care.  For MY population of people that I actually associate with, an IQ of 100 is in fact quite stupid and far below average.

Are there smart enlisted men in the military?  Certainly - I know several myself.  But practically speaking, on the average, enlisted men just aren't that bright.



Edited by Clark Kent - 19 March 2007 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2007 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Are there smart enlisted men in the military?  Certainly - I know several myself.  But practically speaking, on the average, enlisted men just aren't that bright.




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