Your opinions on "mil-sim"?

Personall I prefer the more tactical aspect of woodsball over speedball.

I honestly don't see the point of dumping paint down range and running from little blow up cover to the next. I've sure it's all very intense and everything, but the one or two games I played struck me as very *bleh*.

The first paintball games I played were out doors, in the bush. So that's pobably why I like it more. There is a lot to be said even for a simple, small area game like paintball, for fieldcraft.

You can sneak trough the bushes, trying not to make a sound, or you can run helter skelter speed ball like through the open.

I prefer mil sim styled gun, especially guns that are made with as close to exact copies because those guns work.

Seriously, there is a reason why the AK, the M16 and to a lesser degree the G36 are popular weapons and popular mods. They have damn nice ergonomics.

There is a small disadvantage of having a paintball mask on when you playing, but the M16/M4 and the G36 were designed to be shot with gas masks on, so they aren't affected too badly.

Now for add ons? Well those can either add or detract to the gun. Personally I like my rifles in real life to be clean. A combat optic of some sort is the most I would want on my rifle, but I'm only a cop. So I don't need grenade launchers, laser designators, or thermal scopes.

If putting something like this on makes you enjoy your game more, then I'm all for it. It's like someone asking you why you've got a rocker triger, a double trigger, an E-trigger, a motorised hopper, a remote tank....All these things are improvements in YOUR opinion. The guys who want to stick Mil Surp on their guns think that helps them.

Should we be worried about it? Hell no. It's just guys playing the game how they thing the game should be played. You'll find this sort of devision in any hobby sport. Look at RC's. The debate between pertrol .vs Battery? Same sort of arguments.

When people actually start taking over woods ball to train their militia, ranting anti goverment speach and white supremecy? Then yes lets get worried.

KBK

Kayback wrote: I'm only a cop. So I don't need grenade launchers, laser designators, or thermal scopes.

So you're not from Detroit, then?  Oh right, Antarctica; I forgot.

IronHorseSniper wrote: I love mil-sim mainly for one reason- it inflicts a reasonable amount of intimidation on the opposing team. I happen to have a BT4 Ironhorse, and the thing pretty much scares the crap out of the speedballers who have those rinky-dink little pocket size guns when they see me marching down the field, firing 13-15 balls a second (yes, I did get the e-trigger). People also tend to fight over me when choosing teams when they see my gun and when I demonstrate its firepower. It also helps intimidate the opposing team when I just walk down the field, releasing a solid stream of paint at them, which I have been tending to do recently. Everybody's like "is he just walking? he can't be serious". Then when I unleash unholy hell upon them (the drop ball feature of my apex barrel works wonders on the little buggers who refuse to move from their hiding spots), they don't want to be on the recieving end anymore.

by speedball kids...I assume you mean new players who use spyders?

by pocket size guns you mean faster shooting, small and lighter guns? Darn those qualities must be horrible where ROF, weight, and a small profile are all beneficial.

13-15bps = not that fast.

Anyone that is impressed w/ the ROF of your BT gun is a newb, and you are an idiot. Your post has no merit.

Kayback wrote: Personall I prefer the more tactical aspect of woodsball over speedball. I honestly don't see the point of dumping paint down range and running from little blow up cover to the next. I've sure it's all very intense and everything, but the one or two games I played struck me as very *bleh*.

See, to me, Speedball is far more tactical than woodsball, more strategically oriented as well. there is a clearly defined objective, and if you have the major benefit of playing on a team, then it's all about strategy and tactics. There is a reason guys like USAF, Gatyr, myself, and the other tourney/speedball guys on this forum practice on average about once-per-week, it's not to just go dump paint down a lane, we work on strategy, tactical maneuvers, how to cope with situations where you are outnumbered and out-gunned, and most importantly, how to get more points than the bastards across the way. In a game where their are points for first grab, eliminations, staying "alive" and capping, the strategical and tactical aspects go above and beyond anything in rec-ball games of woodsball where there is usually a singular way to win (eliminate the opposition, cap the flag, hold the fort, etc) and there is no grab for points. I highly suggest getting to know some speedball guys at your local field and watching what they do. Go play with them and have them give you some direction, I guarantee you'll see the gameplay in a whole new light.

tallen702 wrote: there is a clearly defined objective, .....practice on average about once-per-week, ...., we work on strategy, tactical maneuvers, how to cope with situations where you are outnumbered and out-gunned, and most importantly, how to get more points than the bastards across the way. In a game where their are points for first grab, eliminations, staying "alive" and capping, the strategical and tactical aspects go above and beyond

Thats pretty much how we play rec, woods and scenario at my local field.

The exact same things happen in woods, yet there is less "cover by fire".

As I said, it's probably all very entertaining when you get into it, but it doesn't attract me. I'd prefer to take one pod of paint onto a field and have a nice outdoors game.

Like I said, basic fieldcraft can increase your kill ratio by over 100% in most woods/scenario games. How do you blend in with a 6ft tall bright orange, paint covered blow up bunker?

I do understand there are more "points" to be played over in Speedball than the more or less binary system of rec/woods/scenario, but that sorta how it is isn't it? I don't get this "we won by one point" or whatever. "We totally killed your entire team and, to use 1337 parlance, Pwned you. " is a little more indicative of who's better than who.

But that said we also play variations of speed ball scoring systems sometimes. Basically slow moving Speedball, in bushes. It's fun.

We also play very basic "tag" rules sometimes. We also play elimination rules. Sometimes we play (when we are feeling masochistic) multi hit kills. This one works better with Laserquest packs, but works just as well in Paintball. True most of these ones are played for gits and shiggels, but we still play it.

Aside from capture the flag, what do you play on a Speedball field?

KBK

Kayback wrote: The exact same things happen in woods, yet there is less "cover by fire".

Hehehe, tell that to the guys at the local field who, when they see me with a DM and a full pack, automatically volunteer me as the "squad-LMG-gunner" I think I actually dump more paint in the woods than I do on a speedball field for all the cover I give.    But yes, if you like the stalking/lurking aspect of the game, woodsball beats the heck out of speedball.

As I said, it's probably all very entertaining when you get into it, but it doesn't attract me. I'd prefer to take one pod of paint onto a field and have a nice outdoors game.

I know what you mean, while it does attract me, I still like to go out with a very basic marker (my nelspot-007) and do some low-cost woods-balling.

Like I said, basic fieldcraft can increase your kill ratio by over 100% in most woods/scenario games. How do you blend in with a 6ft tall bright orange, paint covered blow up bunker?

I do understand there are more "points" to be played over in Speedball than the more or less binary system of rec/woods/scenario, but that sorta how it is isn't it? I don't get this "we won by one point" or whatever. "We totally killed your entire team and, to use 1337 parlance, Pwned you. " is a little more indicative of who's better than who.

Certainly if you wind up wiping the field with the opposition in a tournament, it's pretty clear that they either had a bad game, or you're much more proficient at the sport than they are. But a lot of speedball teams are more evenly matched than the average pick-up/walkon game, so the points system gives you a clearly defined winner. Also, speedball tends to be on the "sport" end of the paintball spectrum while woods/rec/scenario tends to reside on the "game" end. Hockey matches, soccer, baseball, etc. can all come down to 1 point games, but you need a winner no matter how close the margin is. Hence the point system in speedball.

But that said we also play variations of speed ball scoring systems sometimes. Basically slow moving Speedball, in bushes. It's fun. We also play very basic "tag" rules sometimes. We also play elimination rules. Sometimes we play (when we are feeling masochistic) multi hit kills. This one works better with Laserquest packs, but works just as well in Paintball. True most of these ones are played for gits and shiggels, but we still play it. Aside from capture the flag, what do you play on a Speedball field?

I think you'll find that a lot of speedball aspects make their way into your woodsball play. The same also happens the other way around, but less so.
As for what games you can play on the speedball field other than CTF. Elimination, "gauntlet" style games (like protect the president, etc) you can play multiple hit games, etc. Just about anything you'd play on a woodsball field with the exception of the "hunt the sniper" type games or, if you're lucky enough to have structures, "house assaults". The fact of the matter is, speedball bunkers/hyperball tubes/pallet fields have just as much (if not more in some cases) cover as a wooded field does. It just happens to be more strategically placed.

Speedball clearly isn't your thing, and that's fine. Seriously, I'm not going to try and talk you into it. But for those of us who greatly enjoy competing in the "sport" end of paintball, there isn't anything out there that is truly like the mayhem you put yourself in the middle of every time break out of the starting box.

mamasboi wrote: i my self like the look of mil-slims but just the time and money needed to put into one. is not my slice of pie.

thats where working with a tippmann dealer pays off, msrp is expensive. (im learning to edit my own posts!)  as for the topic...i have a mil-sim x7 because i prefer the look of a real gun, not because i am imagining it being one its just my personal opinion.  i do not play sppedball cause i like the large area of woodsball and honestly, i think i would get completly wrecked in speedball with my x7.  someday when i get my x7 the way i want, i would love to get a spiffy looking speedbal gun with all the performance ugrades.  there shouldnt be an arguement about which type of gun is better because it all depends on the player.  as for ironhorse thats just way to cocky for me and sounds like pretty bad strategy cause i know if i see someone walking down a field randomly spraying paint everywere, im lighting their ass up.

Edited by johnson1456 - 12 March 2007 at 8:09pm

Kayback wrote: Wasn't trying to talk you out of speedball either. Just healthy active debate. KBK

I realized that. I was just happy to have someone who could debate their side with eloquence and dignity! Normally you just get flamed when you try to explain your point of view on speedball to some of the younger crowd around here. Glad we've got people like you who take an intelligent stance on things.

What's my opinion on MilSim?

It a game, just like Speedball is a game. There are those that like
Speedball and those that enjoy the "scenario" or "woodsball" type of
paintball. Each is different as each is the same. By that I mean in each
game the object is to eliminate your opponents by sending paintballs
downfield in an attempt to eliminate opposing players using cover.

Each is differs in the way the game is played. Personally, I prefer MilSim
because I don't dive and slide up behind bunkers primarily because my
knees can't take it. Speedball is a fast moving game while woodsball or
MilSim takes a more stealthy approach to attrition.

As for not having military experience, I was an E5 Staff Sergeant in the
USAF during the VietNam war. My specialty was small arms and automatic
weapons. I taught airmen how to properly use the M16 Assault Rifle in a
tactical role. I developed an interest in military weapons and for a while,
collected them. That was then, this is now.

The MilSim paintball marker allows a person to own a "replica" of a full-
automatic" MP5 or M16 or any other assault or tactical weapon without
the taxes and expense of the "real steel" and enjoy using them in an
environment that promotes teamwork, health, companionship and just
plain fun.

Basically it's combat without the lethality.

I fail to understand why some people can't understand that the two forms
or paintball can't coexist peacefully and even compliment each other or
why there is so much narrowmindedness from each side of the fence.
Both forms of the sport involve shooting each other with projectiles shot
from a marker thereby "marking" your opponent.

I'm certainly not against Speedball. I watch it on television. I just don't
play it. It's too fast for me but I'm not going to give up playing paintball
bacause of that. The way I see it is that if MilSim markers aren't your
forte', then don't buy or build one. But don't take it upon yourself to blast
someone that does like them. The same is true of Speeedball markers.

Just participate in the aspect of paintball that you personally enjoy and
let's work together to make this sport a good, safe, fun sport we can all
enjoy and recruit new players and teams to take part in.

In closing let me say this...I would love to put together a "Dream Team for
MilSim" with anyone I wanted because you can bet I'd sure have some
speedballers on my team! The guys are animals!

Edited by nauzerlvr - 15 March 2007 at 11:32am

IronHorseSniper wrote: I love mil-sim mainly for one reason- it inflicts a reasonable amount of intimidation on the opposing team. I happen to have a BT4 Ironhorse, and the thing pretty much scares the crap out of the speedballers who have those rinky-dink little pocket size guns when they see me marching down the field, firing 13-15 balls a second (yes, I did get the e-trigger). People also tend to fight over me when choosing teams when they see my gun and when I demonstrate its firepower. It also helps intimidate the opposing team when I just walk down the field, releasing a solid stream of paint at them, which I have been tending to do recently. Everybody's like "is he just walking? he can't be serious". Then when I unleash unholy hell upon them (the drop ball feature of my apex barrel works wonders on the little buggers who refuse to move from their hiding spots), they don't want to be on the recieving end anymore.

Sounds like you're playing against a bunch of scrubs.