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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:05am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

These debates are about as intelligent as the homosexual debates...

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights, and I don't see Atheist laws imposing on Christian rights, so why stay so militant all the time? And don't blame the other side-both sides on this forum are guilty of overdramatizing the whole matter, myself included. The point is, most of the atheists here on the forum take every chance they get to point out how ignorant and silly the Christian belief is, be it through mocking sigs, avatars, or whatever, and the Christians generally respond with stupid, angry comebacks that make no sense whatsoever. The fact is, if you think you're better than someone else because of your beliefs, or you lack of beliefs, your an ass and an idiot.

Actually, when Christians try to legislate their "moral" beliefs, that is imposing on ours. This is prominent in the Evolution debates, as well as ones concerning The Ten Commandments and "decency" in media....Also, we take our chances to poke at them because we like to argue. Not to mention many of us don't see religion as "beliefs" but as "ignorance" and ignorance should always be attacked.


B:) To say that there are idiots in Christianity...well no kidding Sherlock...there are idiots in the White House, Congress, the UN, your favorite software developer...let's face it, there are more idiots than intelligent people in the world.

Very true. And the opposite is true. I know a lot of Christians that are very intelligent and are really great people. It's just the individual debaters and the general dogma that we find idiotic.

C:) The blanket statements get old...there is no single representation of either group. There are smartass atheists and Christians, and there are those who think that no matter what, they're right.

Again, very true. Very few people are actually talking about individual Christians, but the community in general, and from that stance, most of our claims are reasonable. Will say though, Christians, by definition as religious people, think their right, no matter what. Most Atheists, by definition as believers in the scientific method, can never be sure they're right....

D:) This conversations will never go anywhere, they're just pointless arguments. Which leads to point E...

Can't we all just get along?

What's the fun in that?


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brihard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:06am
Originally posted by ANARCHY_SCOUT ANARCHY_SCOUT wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:

Originally posted by MT. Vigilante MT. Vigilante wrote:

I have a question for all of you athiests; since you seem to be prejudice against Christians, I ask you, do you hold the same feelings towards other religions, like say Muslims, buddhists, those who follow American Indian Religion? If not, then why? They believe in some form of a god as well.


Of course we do. So do you, christians disbelieve every other god, we just disbelieve yours too.

Quote If it is wrong to hate somone just because of skin color, why is it o.k. to hate somone just because they believe differently than you?


Athiests dont hate christians, we pity them.


Yes but, you athiests claim to dislike all religion, yet you focus your attacks on us.

Also, if you dont hate us, then why are their all those cartoons on the previous page that many whould call offensive. Which brings up another point, you athiests are all about tolerating everybody, yet your manner towards us is anything but tolerable.

And you still havn't disproved my claim that your attitude towards us is no different than a racists attitude towards a black person.
I mainly focus on you because everyone else seems to respect our beliefs towards "god". On the other hand you christians seem to push your beliefs onto people who do not want them.  You  also seem to be the "supreme power" in your own mind.


*EDIT* O and antheist are not the ones who killed millions of innocent people in the middle ages, christians did.


You were fine up until that last bit...

A people are not culpable for their crimes of a past generation, so long as they exercise due diligence to prevent their reoccurrence.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:08am
Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime were definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victim's religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were viewed as a threat to the state.




Edited by .Ryan - 08 February 2007 at 12:11am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:09am
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime was definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victims religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were views as a threat to the state.


ZING
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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.Ryan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:12am
I really need to proof-read before I post so my crappy English doesn't get quoted...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:14am
I sleep well at night knowing that what I have done that day won't haunt me later after death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:15am

How exactly are Christians the only ones who push their beliefs off on people who do not want them? How about the mass military movements in the name of Islam? And every religion believes it's the "supreme power", or better yet, the only one's who are right. That's the basic principle of religion-you strive your whole life believing that the set of principles you live by are the right way...otherwise, what's the point?

I still have yet to see a pointed attack that I can honestly say is a hard representative of Christianity or atheism.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:16am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime was definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victims religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were views as a threat to the state.


ZING



That is a silly argument, and not ZING worthy.
Stalin did not kill in the name of Atheism.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:28am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights
1. What .Ryan said.
2. There are numerous states that have laws on the books barring atheists from holding public office.

Win count on this page so far:
1. .Ryan at top.
2. TKD right above me.

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 08 February 2007 at 12:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:29am
Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Actually, when Christians try to legislate their "moral" beliefs, that is imposing on ours. This is prominent in the Evolution debates, as well as ones concerning The Ten Commandments and "decency" in media....Also, we take our chances to poke at them because we like to argue. Not to mention many of us don't see religion as "beliefs" but as "ignorance" and ignorance should always be attacked.

 

So you blanket religion as ignorance, and feel you have the right to attack it. That amazes me...realizing that Christianity is a lifestyle as much as a belief, what if I went on a racist rant, or decided to start taking shots a gay guy...you'd call me a biggot. This is what I mean by thinking that somehow because you choose to believe there is no god makes you more intelligent than someone who believes there is one. I have religious beliefs...and I consider myself far from ignorant. It's a shame that such attitudes are prominent, and furthermore politically correct.

Again, very true. Very few people are actually talking about individual Christians, but the community in general, and from that stance, most of our claims are reasonable. Will say though, Christians, by definition as religious people, think their right, no matter what. Most Atheists, by definition as believers in the scientific method, can never be sure they're right....

That last statement made no sense whatseover....atheism has nothing to do with science. It can be equated with science, and granted religion or lack thereof has a direct impact on your scientific beliefs, but you can't disprove God on a whole. You can pick at the Bible all day long, but you can't prove or disprove God. By sheer knowledge of the scientific method, which seeks to disprove a theory instead of prove it, you can't disprove a Being that there is no physical proof of his existence. You can disprove the traditions of a religion, but you can't disprove the religion on a whole.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:31am

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights
1. What .Ryan said.
2. There are numerous states that have laws on the books barring atheists from holding public office.

Win count on this page so far:
1. .Ryan at top.
2. TKD right above me.

Care to point those states out to me...I've been searching.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:34am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights
1. What .Ryan said. 2. There are numerous states that have laws on the books barring atheists from holding public office. Win count on this page so far: 1. .Ryan at top. 2. TKD right above me.


Care to point those states out to me...I've been searching.

State constitutions-
9 States
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime was definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victims religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were views as a threat to the state.


ZING



That is a silly argument, and not ZING worthy.
Stalin did not kill in the name of Atheism.


Read up on the persecution of the Orthodox church in the 20s.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 12:46am
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

A:) I don't see Christian laws imposing Atheist rights
1. What .Ryan said. 2. There are numerous states that have laws on the books barring atheists from holding public office. Win count on this page so far: 1. .Ryan at top. 2. TKD right above me.


Care to point those states out to me...I've been searching.

State constitutions-
9 States

Alright, I'll concede my argument on that point, however my other points still stand, and I'd contest that not one of those laws would stand against a court case if an atheist wanted to run for office in those states. There are plenty of antiquated laws on the books that would never be stand up in a trial, much less be enforced. But on sheer points of my argument, I'll admit I was wrong there.

That doesn't detract from the original point of my post though...you can't justify ridiculing someone for their beliefs. There's no point in it...and just as I said, Christianity on a whole is not impacting your lifestyle as an atheist.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:10am
stratoaxe - How is Christianity not impacting my life? Nearly every 'Morality' based law (Obscenity standards, controlled substances, etc.) is based upon religous beliefs. Further is the stigma I gain from being an Atheist. I have no doubt in my mind that a candidate for public office higher than local level (to which I may aspire), could not win because of their (lack of) belief.

As to ridiculing someone for their beliefs, why shouldn't I? Why should ones beliefs be on a different scale from, say, their clothes?

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 08 February 2007 at 1:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:13am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime was definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victims religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were views as a threat to the state.


ZING



That is a silly argument, and not ZING worthy.
Stalin did not kill in the name of Atheism.


Read up on the persecution of the Orthodox church in the 20s.


Yup. He was killing in the name of the state which had as one of its principles the denial of the existence of God. He undoubtedly had more complex motives, but part of it was that they didn't step in line of the Soviet Communist Atheistic Dogma......

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:15am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by Tae Kwon Do Tae Kwon Do wrote:

Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by .Ryan .Ryan wrote:

Yeah, not to mention Stalin lead an atheistic government. He and his regime was definitely responsible for millions of deaths, many of which were as the result of the victims religious beliefs, at least as so far as they were views as a threat to the state.


ZING



That is a silly argument, and not ZING worthy.
Stalin did not kill in the name of Atheism.


Read up on the persecution of the Orthodox church in the 20s.



Communists used atheism as a way to make people sure of their government's power, not necessarily "in the name of atheism." It was exploited just as religion was many times in the past. The difference is that few atheists if any supported Stalin, while the Christians and the Muslims and other power-hungry religious groups supported killing for the religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:27am

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

stratoaxe - How is Christianity not impacting my life? Nearly every 'Morality' based law (Obscenity standards, controlled substances, etc.) is based upon religous beliefs. Further is the stigma I gain from being an Atheist. I have no doubt in my mind that a candidate for public office higher than local level (to which I may aspire), could not win because of their (lack of) belief.

As to ridiculing someone for their beliefs, why shouldn't I? Why should ones beliefs be on a different scale from, say, their clothes?

I got news for you...Christianity isn't the only belief that pushes obscenity and drug laws...there are plenty of atheists that support those things too. You're confusing morales with religion.

And religious beliefs are on a different scale. Let's use that logic...why can't I blatently use the N word, or take some cheap shots at homosexuals? Why should anyone get strikes for racism, or flaming? It's their right after all...just like the Jesus picture that just got posted. If I posted that about about a black man, or a gay man, it would be pulled, locked, and I'd probably either get a strike or guested.

And granted, political correctness and biggotry aside, it's my right to do any of those things. But what I see here on the forum is complete inequality...I can make fun of Christians all day long, but if I say you're ignorant for being an atheist (which I don't believe), I'd probably get something like this-

Stop. Posting.

Go away.

Tool.

Fail.

Because the general idealogy here is that the entirety of Christianity, or republicans, or Fox news, or whatever modern political cliche you'd like to use, are idiots. And they're lumped together.

Not that I really care, I don't come to the forum for intelligent religious debate-in fact I don't go anywhere for intelligent religious debate, because I really don't care-but I like to ruffle feathers now and then, and point out the ridiculousness of the arguments I'm seeing.

How about this-an honest discussion about religion, without blanket statements, mud slinging, or just flat out being an ass. How about both sides explain their beliefs, give facts to back those up, instead of "OMG, you're such a tool. Clark/TKD/Chewp wins." That won't happen, but until then these arguments are an excercise in egos...and benefit no-one.

 



Edited by stratoaxe - 08 February 2007 at 1:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:37am
Again, hate to point it out, but... The difference is that one chooses their beliefs, they do not choose their skin color, it's innate.

As for an honest discussion of religion, it's been done before here, if you can ignore the enormous amount of spam posts, and illiterate people, which is hard to do.

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 08 February 2007 at 1:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote .Ryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 1:44am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

stratoaxe - How is Christianity not impacting my life? Nearly every 'Morality' based law (Obscenity standards, controlled substances, etc.) is based upon religous beliefs. Further is the stigma I gain from being an Atheist. I have no doubt in my mind that a candidate for public office higher than local level (to which I may aspire), could not win because of their (lack of) belief.

As to ridiculing someone for their beliefs, why shouldn't I? Why should ones beliefs be on a different scale from, say, their clothes?

And religious beliefs are on a different scale. Let's use that logic...why can't I blatently use the N word, or take some cheap shots at homosexuals? Why should anyone get strikes for racism, or flaming? It's their right after all...just like the Jesus picture that just got posted. If I posted that about about a black man, or a gay man, it would be pulled, locked, and I'd probably either get a strike or guested.


And granted, political correctness and biggotry aside, it's my right to do any of those things. But what I see here on the forum is complete inequality...I can make fun of Christians all day long, but if I say you're ignorant for being an atheist (which I don't believe), I'd probably get something like this-

Stop. Posting.

Go away.

Tool.

Fail.

Because the general idealogy here is that the entirety of Christianity, or republicans, or Fox news, or whatever modern political cliche you'd like to use, are idiots. And they're lumped together.

Not that I really care, I don't come to the forum for intelligent religious debate-in fact I don't go anywhere for intelligent religious debate, because I really don't care-but I like to ruffle feathers now and then, and point out the ridiculousness of the arguments I'm seeing.

How about this-an honest discussion about religion, without blanket statements, mud slinging, or just flat out being an ass. How about both sides explain their beliefs, give facts to back those up, instead of "OMG, you're such a tool. Clark/TKD/Chewp wins." That won't happen, but until then these arguments are an excercise in egos...and benefit no-one.

 



Uh, philosophical disagreement and debate is much different than racist bigotry....That's why racist rants about black people will get you banned, and not this....Also, you get pwned because most of the people here disagree with you and are better debaters, I don't see this as a condemnation of this community at all. And I really don't see much of that crap you mentioned in most of these threads, including this one(especially if you ignore certain people). Besides the blanket statements, which are nearly unavoidable when discussing a ideological community....All the stuff you said against those statements should be clear and generally implied, at least in the mind of anyone with any reasonable level of intelligence and/or life experience....I would say though, that certain blanket statements are nearly accurate for 99% of the Christian community.


Edited by .Ryan - 08 February 2007 at 1:47am

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